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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 190 39.42%
No 246 51.04%
Unsure 46 9.54%
Voters: 482. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-07-2022, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,826 posts, read 2,729,107 times
Reputation: 3387

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Todays Update

https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...essment-june-7

Quote:
Russian forces continued offensive operations in several locations in eastern Ukraine but did not secure any confirmed gains in ground assaults on June 7.

Members of the Russian military community are accusing Ukrainian forces of escalating artillery attacks on Russian rear areas in a likely attempt to dissuade further Western support to the Ukrainian military.

The Kremlin’s efforts to censor information about deceased military personnel and ongoing forced mobilization within the DNR and LNR are reportedly exacerbating domestic tensions and opposition to the war in Russia.

Domestic Russian complaints about the maltreatment and lack of preparation among Russian combat forces are likely prompting the Kremlin to take rhetorical steps to curb discontent.
Key Takeaways

Quote:
Russian forces have likely established control over the majority of the residential sector of Severodonetsk and conducted assaults against Ukrainian positions in the industrial zone in the past 24 hours. The operational environment within the city remains fluid.

Russian forces continued efforts to advance on Slovyansk southeast from the Izyum area and west from Lyman, attempting to break through Ukrainian defenses that have halted most direct frontal assaults from Izyum.

Russian forces are likely attempting to reinforce their operations in the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area from both the Toshkivka-Ustynivka area in the south and Kupyansk from the northwest.

Russian forces began withdrawing troops from positions in Zaporizhia Oblast, likely either to rotate damaged units into rear areas or to reinforce Russian defenses in northwestern Kherson Oblast, though ISW cannot currently confirm the destination of these forces.

Russian forces failed to regain advanced positions on the western (now Ukrainian-occupied) bank of the Ihulets River on June 7.
Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu announced that Russian forces restored transit connections between newly occupied cities and Crimea.

Russian occupation authorities continue to face challenges suppressing Ukrainian resistance and finding partisan supporters despite increasingly draconian occupation measures and attempts to bribe Ukrainian civilians.

Activity in Russian-occupied Areas

Russian occupation authorities continue to face challenges suppressing Ukrainian resistance and finding partisan supporters. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that Russian occupation authorities are confiscating the Russian passports of railway workers in Melitopol who have refused to cooperate with Russian forces and left the city.[36] The Ukrainian Southern Operational Command reported that Russian forces authorized troops to shoot civilians and indiscriminately destroy any vehicles at checkpoints in Kherson Oblast, likely indicating the growing fear of Ukrainian resistance in the region and increasingly draconian measures to restrict Ukrainian movements.

Last edited by JohnBoy64; 06-07-2022 at 09:57 PM..
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Old 06-07-2022, 10:16 PM
 
26,790 posts, read 22,556,454 times
Reputation: 10039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
Trump is a different story, it has no place here. That was a connection you made.

Manafort was hired for his political expertise by a Russian oligarch with connections to Putin on behalf of Viktor Yanukovych. Manafort's close collaborator was Konstantin Kilimnik, an operative of the Main Directorate of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, a military intelligence operation something like a CIA or KGB.

Konstantin Kilimnik today resides in a two million dollar mansion in a gated community near to a Main Directorate base for hackers at Khimki, north-west of Moscow. Nice work if you can get it.



Nice try, but you still don't understand that in case of Yanukovich, the South-Easterners were voting not really for him but AGAINST someone ( Timoshenko in this case.) They wanted to get rid of her. My guess is - they were sick of the "gas wars" with Russia under her among other things, since decent gas prices were a must for their industrial sector.

And that's what no Manafort, no Trump, no Kilimnik could change.


So you can put your conspiracy theories to rest.
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Old 06-08-2022, 12:09 AM
 
Location: Tricity, PL
61,732 posts, read 87,147,355 times
Reputation: 131715
Russian forces left piles of excrement in every office of the Chernobyl nuclear plant before they retreated, Ukrainian workers say.
https://www.businessinsider.com/russ...workers-2022-6

Always a high class.....

Last edited by elnina; 06-08-2022 at 12:19 AM..
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Old 06-08-2022, 12:21 AM
 
10,130 posts, read 19,882,004 times
Reputation: 5815
Quote:
Originally Posted by elnina View Post
Russian forces left piles of excrement in every office of the Chernobyl nuclear plant before they retreated, Ukrainian workers say.
https://www.businessinsider.com/russ...workers-2022-6

Always a high class.....
I hear they were Putin's crack troops.
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Old 06-08-2022, 12:36 AM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,375,883 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by atxcio View Post
I hear they were Putin's crack troops.
LOL. apparently I have upvoted you too recently, but I snorted my drink at that.

I wonder how the soldiers who dug in in Chernobyl are doing. I remember thinking that they would be fine....up until I learned they had them dig in and stay in the radiated ground.

Gotta tell folks, cancer really sucks.
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Old 06-08-2022, 02:11 AM
 
51,654 posts, read 25,828,130 times
Reputation: 37894
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Man the Russian attempts to spread propaganda are so ham handed its hilarious. I think their best folks have either bailed, or are intentionally doing a bad job.
They cant figure out if its a war (it is) because their government made it a crime...to call a war...a war.

Then they claim that the war....err...special operation is against NAzis in Ukraine! Then It was NATO. Then it was the US, etc etc etc. They have ZERO idea why theyre fighting, who theyre fighting, or how its going to go.

Eventually they're going to realize that theyre fighting because Putin wants a legacy. Nothing else. Heck, they took the steel plant by destroying it, and are saying they will turn it into a resort for the rich. That theyre fighting people that used to be part of the soviet union with them. And that with the world being against them on this its going to go very very badly.

Bottom line? This is a loss, the only question now is how big. Lets say Russia TAKES Ukraine somehow. The world won't suddenly say 'ok whelp, you won, lets drop the sanctions'. Even if Russia wins, they lose at this point.
Putin has already lost this war to expand Russia, to make it a more powerful nation.
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Old 06-08-2022, 03:12 AM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
24,636 posts, read 9,464,279 times
Reputation: 22979
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Bottom line? This is a loss, the only question now is how big. Lets say Russia TAKES Ukraine somehow. The world won't suddenly say 'ok whelp, you won, lets drop the sanctions'. Even if Russia wins, they lose at this point.
Europe still depends on Russian oil and gas.

Crimea is still owned by Russia.

Luhansk and Donbas region is still owned by Russia/Russian separatists.

Ukraine was (and still) has no security guarantees from NATO/US that Russia will leave them a lone. Nor a ceasefire in place.

Ukraine was (and is stilll) the poorest country in Europe.

Until all of those change, calling it a "lost" is incorrect. Look at the gas prices and your investment portfolio, there are no winners here. We're all going to lose.
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Old 06-08-2022, 06:25 AM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,375,883 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Europe still depends on Russian oil and gas.

Crimea is still owned by Russia.

Luhansk and Donbas region is still owned by Russia/Russian separatists.

Ukraine was (and still) has no security guarantees from NATO/US that Russia will leave them a lone. Nor a ceasefire in place.

Ukraine was (and is stilll) the poorest country in Europe.

Until all of those change, calling it a "lost" is incorrect. Look at the gas prices and your investment portfolio, there are no winners here. We're all going to lose.
Russia is a global Pariah, and their soldiers are dying in droves in a conflict they did not need to start.

And we are all going to lose? Nonsense. Were going from worrying about Russia and China, to being able to focus on China. Yeah its not much fun right now, but long term? Massive win already for us, and loss for Russia.
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Old 06-08-2022, 06:25 AM
 
51,654 posts, read 25,828,130 times
Reputation: 37894
Quote:
Originally Posted by elnina View Post
Russian forces left piles of excrement in every office of the Chernobyl nuclear plant before they retreated, Ukrainian workers say.
https://www.businessinsider.com/russ...workers-2022-6

Always a high class.....
I remember reading that and wondered what that was all about.

Then I recalled that the Jan 6 traitors smeared their feces around the Capitol.

Didn't that Bundy bunch leave exrement around the wildlife refuge building they occupied for a time?

Birds of a feather.
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Old 06-08-2022, 06:28 AM
 
Location: Western PA
10,867 posts, read 4,540,181 times
Reputation: 6721
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
No it's not "Putin or Strelkov" that "destabilized" Ukraine.

It was the coup d'etat sponsored by America that destabilized Ukraine.

Before that, Ukrainian West lived its own life and didn't interfere in the cultural life of the South East, its language or beliefs.

The South East of the country was quietly tolerating the Western part and their "cultural icons."

Once Americans supported specifically the Nationalists from the Western part of the country and encouraged them to create the Nationalist state that they were dreaming of already for long time, they attacked South-East.

The reaction from the South-East followed, and that's how Ukraine was destabilized ( using your terminology.)

Kharkov rejected separatism in 2014 because its very influential mayor realized early in the game that Russia was not going to bring the army in, and won't give the adequate support to rebels, as much as initially a lot of people in Kharkov were hopeful for the creation of the separate "Kharkov's people Republic," in the same manner as in LDNR.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN_RWJHMVgw&t=125s


Hence, Gennady Kernes ( Kharkov's mayor) understood that if he would proceed with this idea and would back up the rebels ( who announced the coup d'etat in Kiev illegal,) Kharkov would become the arena of the military actions, and the city would be destroyed.


Kernes was one of the very few people in charge in Ukraine, who in spite of his corruption and extensive "business ties" was actually doing a good job as a mayor. He was taking care of Kharkov wholeheartedly; the city was clean and constantly updated. Its citizenry in their turn were paying Kernes with respect and loyalty, so his "local decision" to save the city from destruction on the basis of situation - the way he understood it, was respected.

I've heard his last interview, shortly before his death, to certain Ukrainian media outlet, ( they were talking about the Nationalists in the city,) and although K. was very cautious when he talked, even the fact that he gave interview to this specific media outlet, was VERY TELLING.

So to the Russians that tried to accuse him of betrayal of the "Kharkov People republic," I'd say that betrayal didn't come from him. Betrayal came from Russia.

(You can learn more about Kernes and events connected to him here - it might give you a better insight.)

I don't make any "generalizations," and it all still leads back to Americans and the Nationalists that they backed.

You can't imagine how many Russian speakers in Ukraine - public figures that is, changed their colors and allegiance during the first years of the conflict, Zelensky including.

They were the most decisive factor in all this, while Russia stepped back, not playing role as any meaningful force.



I am not going to go through all these pretenses of the Western powers, that tried to act like they WERE sticking to any of their so-called "guarantees."

More broadly - Western Ukraine, that was never historically part of Russia until 1939.

They didn't take part even in the all-people referendum of the USSR back in 1991, where 70% of Ukrainians voted to stay with Russians.

I am filling in all those ellipses for you. And since you are missing a lot of information between them, the picture is obviously NOT the one you are trying to build.

What showed by 2022 is that Americans were not asleep, proceeding with "Ukraine as anti-Russia project," training and supplying Ukrainian army, and backing the Nationalists and their actions.

Oh Putin's error was there alright - that is that he didn't act accordingly back in 2014 and let it all happen, let it all come to it.

Yep. He had a chance to respond to American aggression and to protect the South-East from it, but he did not.

Now the good question is why.

gee i dunno, ukraine seems pretty united and stable and single minded of purpose - fighting illegal russian pillagers.


the only parts of ukraine unstable are the one were russian terrorists have invaded and are destroying everything and shooting everyone. you should see the photos of mariupol feb23 vs today...they did a number on that one. close to a million killed? ;-)
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