Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
As a society, we keep no official record of foetuses as human entities. No name, no date of conception, no date of death, nothing.
Of course as an individual, we mourn the loss of our own pregnancy in our own way.
But as a whole, we do not act like a miscarriage is the same as the death of a born baby. We just don’t. I personally think that’s for self preservation reasons, it being so common.
So given that, we surmise that foetuses are not as important to society as born children.
And given that we don’t hold funerals etc for foetuses, equating abortion with murder like it’s a an actual born baby - is a huge leap as far as societal norms are concerned.
If we don’t treat foetuses when they organically die in the same way we treat born babies when they die, then we can’t equate abortion with murder, when a pregnancy is terminated.
It’s a complete dichotomy of rules.
Ah, I see where you are coming from now. A fetus is not as recognized in society as those born, if I understand you correctly. That is a fair statement as a fetus has had no exposure to society. Only to its parents is it recognized as 'their child'. Whether 'society' accepts that as an excuse to end its life is why there has been such division along the subject for so long.
However, if your point is to stress we can't equate abortion with murder, I have no dog in this hunt as while I am not a supporter of abortions, I have not equated it with murder.
Do you remember being born. You know going down that birth canal and maybe the doc using forceps to get you out. Of course you don't remember so how would an embryo be traumatized.
You may not remember now, but you could have been very well aware at the time. Just sayin'.
Are you saying people remember when they are born. Interesting topic.
No, that's not what I'm saying. I said people may be aware of the birth process during the time they are experiencing it. IOW awareness of the process while they are being born. It's all speculation. Half the time I don't remember what I had for lunch yesterday.
In a study of sexual trends in the United States, researchers at the University of Utah found that promiscuity is rising for women and declining for men.
Doesn't make sense, does it?
If a woman opens her legs to every other man, then promiscuity also increase in men, I mean, automatically.
Ah, I see where you are coming from now. A fetus is not as recognized in society as those born, if I understand you correctly. That is a fair statement as a fetus has had no exposure to society. Only to its parents is it recognized as 'their child'. Whether 'society' accepts that as an excuse to end its life is why there has been such division along the subject for so long.
However, if your point is to stress we can't equate abortion with murder, I have no dog in this hunt as while I am not a supporter of abortions, I have not equated it with murder.
No you haven't, and thank you for the opportunity to explain further.
And yes, but it's not just society - on an individual level too, and I can only speak for myself here - I've had a couple of miscarriages and a real live child, and the two are not equitable.
While miscarriages are sad, and you mourn what could have been - you carry on and honestly I personally don't think about it all that much.
But if anything happened to my child, my child that I love more than anything you can imagine - I couldn't go on with my life. And I may go through the motions, but I assure you that that's all it would be, from here until eternity.
I believe that other people's pregnancies have become somewhat of a mascot adopted by proxy by the very vocal pro life movement - I mean I could get pregnant, miscarry, or abort - and it would effect those who have made it their life's work not one iota. They wouldn't even know. It's academic, those "lives" they seek to protect. And I don't seek to trivialise life in saying that. I truly don't. The foetus, embryo, fertilised egg - is not the only life impacted here.
We do not treat the unborn as the born. One can argue it's a human, a baby, whatever nomenclature de jour, but until that very personal relationship is made public by birth, it's just not anyone else's call to make. In my very humble opinion. And I mean that sincerely, because I do see where others with differing opinions come from.
As a society, we keep no official record of foetuses as human entities. No name, no date of conception, no date of death, nothing.
Of course as an individual, we mourn the loss of our own pregnancy in our own way.
But as a whole, we do not act like a miscarriage is the same as the death of a born baby. We just don’t. I personally think that’s for self preservation reasons, it being so common.
So given that, we surmise that foetuses are not as important to society as born children.
And given that we don’t hold funerals etc for foetuses, equating abortion with murder like it’s a an actual born baby - is a huge leap as far as societal norms are concerned.
If we don’t treat foetuses when they organically die in the same way we treat born babies when they die, then we can’t equate abortion with murder, when a pregnancy is terminated.
It’s a complete dichotomy of rules.
We certainly don't treat embryos the same as even a fetus (8+ weeks). The majority of miscarriages occur during the 1st trimester. At that stage a woman may not even know she is pregnant. Could even have a period, light period, or some spotting, then later on get more bleeding, and could be having a miscarriage. Nobody will ever know for sure.
My miscarriages were very early on. The only person I told I was pregnant was my husband. I never told anyone else until I was 3 months. Why? Because too many things can go wrong in an early pregnancy. My daughter also did not tell us until she was 3 months, again for the same reasoning.
Perhaps in the 3rd trimester a funeral and burial could be held, but even then no death certificate will be issued. Need a date of birth (date of conception??) listed for a death certificate. We certainly don't hold funerals and burials for EMBRYOS.
We certainly don't treat embryos the same as even a fetus (8+ weeks). The majority of miscarriages occur during the 1st trimester. At that stage a woman may not even know she is pregnant. Could even have a period, light period, or some spotting, then later on get more bleeding, and could be having a miscarriage. Nobody will ever know for sure.
My miscarriages were very early on. The only person I told I was pregnant was my husband. I never told anyone else until I was 3 months. Why? Because too many things can go wrong in an early pregnancy. My daughter also did not tell us until she was 3 months, again for the same reasoning.
Perhaps in the 3rd trimester a funeral and burial could be held, but even then no death certificate will be issued. Need a date of birth (date of conception??) listed for a death certificate. We certainly don't hold funerals and burials for EMBRYOS.
Fetal death certificate are indeed issued if a miscarriage occurs under a doctor's or midwife's care. Obviously not for those that are unrecognized.
I advocate using birth control. 95% of unintended pregnancies are due to women voluntarily having unprotected sex, by their own admission (Guttmacher). And over 96% of the 930,000 abortions per year are convenience abortions that kill healthy babies in healthy pregnancies just because women didn't use birth control and willingly participated in unprotected sex, anyway.
We all know that deary. You are the one who ask it. The statements made was abortion kills. And so does miscarriage. Begs the question, why are some people not upset when a miscarriage occurs but get their knickers all in a bunch when an abortion occurs.
Do you really not understand that a miscarriage is organic, a naturally occurring event, but an abortion in direct contrast is the deliberate decision made and action taken to kill a perfectly healthy life for no reason other than convenience more than 98% of the time?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
