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Old 05-27-2008, 11:45 PM
 
2,137 posts, read 3,860,417 times
Reputation: 608

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Thanks for the laugh... Gore/Clinton helped to cause this problem. We have not built a nuclear power plant, oil refinery, drilled for new oil, (etc) in my lifetime... Now that demand is up, and its economically feasible to build new energy sources, its not an option due to governmental regulations put into place by Clinton/Gore..

electric cars.. yeah sure, especially since they have yet to build ONE electric car that would work for modern day america.

p.s. you do understand that electric cars need to be plugged in, and thereby increasing the demand on the power lines, (and replacement in most of the country) plus burns more coal, causing power plants to output more polution, bigger dams, causing more fish to be killed, etc..

Until nuclear power plants become a viable option here in the states, electric cars cant even be powered in mass demand.
Oh, you and your darned facts. Gets in the way of the hysterical left blaming Bush for their every hangnail.
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Old 05-28-2008, 01:24 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
7,184 posts, read 4,770,186 times
Reputation: 4869
Quote:
Originally Posted by caution View Post
It isn't about wind farms and solar panels, or what a different President might have done with tax breaks or subsidies. The problem is much larger and hardly limited to whoever happens to be president.

This is exactly why I fear, and the only reason I would ever fear, the US having serious problems. We're going to spend a good chunk of the next few years blaming Bush or fighting over some other trivial items in the budget.

Everyone must participate (like a real war effort, or like the small pox vaccination program) and be willing to sacrifice a little (in terms of conservation) while we find a solution to oil addiction. I bet you a gallon of gas the best solution won't come from government. I bet the guys who find it will be operating under a subsidy or tax break though. The market will work, and it's ok to help it along, but you'll never find solutions by writing laws.

I'm not even a peak oil theory guy either. I just think it's dumb to run full speed ahead for the last 40 years without looking over the hill.

Plus, I can't imagine any better way to fight radicals in the middle east than taking away their money. Sure, they are low budget ops, and sure, they're going to get really mad and behave worse for a while once they're all poor and hungry. But repeating the same thing over and over only to expect different results is.... well you know the answer.
I agree wholeheartedly with your last paragraph. That is why I think the war in Iraq is futile. It's a huge waste of time, blood and money. The best way to mitigate terrorism is to curtail its money supply.

Government cannot solve all our energy problems; however, government can establish a coherent, multi pronged policy to get things started. That is where true leadership comes in. This country has lacked true leaders in Congress as well as in the White House for decades. We should have started to work on mitigating our oil dependency after the oil embargo during the 70's. No, it isn't Bush's fault alone. However, he's been in office for the past two terms with a Republican Congress during his first term. He had the opportunity to LEAD and he did not. He has said he can't think of a mistake he's made and he's dubbed himself "the decider". His staunchest supporters believe he's God's gift to the world. Now, when it comes to energy, we are well behind the power curve. Well, Mr. Bush should take the criticism like a man. He's not solely responsible, but he's supposed to be in charge now, so it's his turn to get kicked in the rear. It's part of the job.

Drilling for oil under every rock alone will not solve the problem. More nuclear plants and "clean coal" alone will not solve the problem. Everybody driving hybrids alone will not solve the problem either.

We need to assess what we have in terms of resources and alternatives and how we can use them ALL best. We also need to realize and accept the fact that we need to address consumption. Whatever oil we drill on our soil is going to be sold on the global market. It is not going to stay here. ANWR is just a drop in the bucket.

Government can LEAD the way by funding research and development. It has done so in other areas such as medicine. Government can give tax cuts or credits to people who drive fuel efficient vehicles. Government can tell the market "OK, I want to buy x number of solar water heaters for all our military housing. These are the specs. Now let me see what you got. Make me buy your product." The market will respond. There is money to be made and good jobs can be created here where they're needed. That's just a few examples.

I wish the people in this country had the self-discipline the country had during WW II. Curbing our energy consumption, developing better technology, improving transportation and dusting off that good old American ingenuity and determination will mitigate our oil dependancy and enhance our national security.

I don't understand how some people who love freedom so much are so defeatist when it comes to oil dependancy. I guess that, like all addicts, we are going to have to hit rock bottom before we do anything about it.
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Old 05-28-2008, 02:49 AM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
24,511 posts, read 33,325,190 times
Reputation: 7623
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfre81 View Post
Come again? Where are they?

Iraq happened because "he tried to kill my daddy!"
Actually, that is considered an act of war.

Quote:
You talk like Bush has a bunch of courage or something. Bush is a draft-dodging AWOL chickenhawk who'd **** his pants if he saw anything close to actual combat. Now, before or ever
Wrong. A draft-dodger is someone who is drafted and doesn't show up as required (like a certain ex-President). Serving in the Air National Guard is NOT being a draft-dodger. Just ask William the Impeached... he knows ALL about draft-dodging.
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Old 05-28-2008, 05:41 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
8,396 posts, read 9,446,125 times
Reputation: 4070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
Actually, that is considered an act of war.



Wrong. A draft-dodger is someone who is drafted and doesn't show up as required (like a certain ex-President). Serving in the Air National Guard is NOT being a draft-dodger. Just ask William the Impeached... he knows ALL about draft-dodging.
What Clinton did was draft-dodging. What Bush did was avoiding hazardous duty through daddy's connections. Both are despicable. It speaks volumes for how America has slipped badly over the past two decades, that we have these two miserable examples as our presidents. And that both served two full terms.
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:00 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,135,461 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
Wrong. A draft-dodger is someone who is drafted and doesn't show up as required (like a certain ex-President). Serving in the Air National Guard is NOT being a draft-dodger. Just ask William the Impeached... he knows ALL about draft-dodging.
Is a short memory a disease for those on the left? Its histerical to see those on the left accuse Bush... of draft dodging, but had no problem with Clinton who really was guilty of dodging the draft.
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:01 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,135,461 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by skoro View Post
What Clinton did was draft-dodging. What Bush did was avoiding hazardous duty through daddy's connections. Both are despicable. It speaks volumes for how America has slipped badly over the past two decades, that we have these two miserable examples as our presidents. And that both served two full terms.
And the true american war hero (McCain) is still being criticized. Seems some people can never be happy when it comes down to military service.
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:15 AM
 
196 posts, read 208,545 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
And the true american war hero (McCain) is still being criticized. Seems some people can never be happy when it comes down to military service.
how long have you served?.... seems the comparisons should be made between father and son and not president to president, those two closet weaklings thinking Iraq was ever really a threat to the United States and Hussein ....whaaa????
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:53 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
8,396 posts, read 9,446,125 times
Reputation: 4070
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
And the true american war hero (McCain) is still being criticized.
Maybe the criticism of his policy positions would die down if he'd distance himself from Bush. Instead, he stubbornly stands with Bush and declares his campaign will be to extend the Bush years.

Maybe you find criticism of Bush policies hard to understand, but that would place you in company with a small and ever-decreasing minority of the public.

Quote:
Seems some people can never be happy when it comes down to military service.
I've heard no mention of any criticism of McCain's military service.

Have you?

On the other hand, I've heard huge volumes of criticism directed at Clinton and Bush for their lack of honorable military service. Yet, these two both served two terms as president. Go figure.
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Old 05-28-2008, 08:51 AM
 
9,891 posts, read 10,828,106 times
Reputation: 3108
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
You are the crazy one. Whats so terrible about developing alternative fuels? We have the technology, why not use it? I agree with you much of the space program is a money pit, and that money could go to better use. I know you are religious and I want to say that it is our God-given duty to care for His creation. We only have one planet. The Bible also speaks heavily against greed, which is the entire business of your beloved oil companies.
Again, there is nothing wrong with it, when there is a truly practical, viable and profitable alternative it will become widly used, until then we need to stick to what the world operates on and stop making an energy policy on myth, hysteria and fantasy!
I believe the entire business of the oil companies would be the same for every company, to increase their profit margin, which in fact is much lower than many other corporations, do you hate the idea of business for profit in general or have you just merrily jumped in the (hate big oil) parade because it makes you feel good. What about a corporation that produces so called alternative energy in the so called most environmetally freindly way possible, would you be opposed to them making a profit? Really, this whole "hate the oil company" bit, is just ignorant, immature and downright stupid!
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Old 05-28-2008, 09:15 AM
 
Location: um....guess
10,503 posts, read 15,571,018 times
Reputation: 1836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin View Post
I don't think we'll come off as the worst president ever. That distinction still goes to Clinton with Nixon being close behind.
Ha! That's a laugh. And please, enlighten me as to why you think Clinton will be known as THE worst president ever? Serious denial going on here, alert alert!
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