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Old 05-27-2008, 07:59 PM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,787,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caution View Post
It isn't about wind farms and solar panels, or what a different President might have done with tax breaks or subsidies. The problem is much larger and hardly limited to whoever happens to be president.

This is exactly why I fear, and the only reason I would ever fear, the US having serious problems. We're going to spend a good chunk of the next few years blaming Bush or fighting over some other trivial items in the budget.

Everyone must participate (like a real war effort, or like the small pox vaccination program) and be willing to sacrifice a little (in terms of conservation) while we find a solution to oil addiction. I bet you a gallon of gas the best solution won't come from government. I bet the guys who find it will be operating under a subsidy or tax break though. The market will work, and it's ok to help it along, but you'll never find solutions by writing laws.

I'm not even a peak oil theory guy either. I just think it's dumb to run full speed ahead for the last 40 years without looking over the hill.

Plus, I can't imagine any better way to fight radicals in the middle east than taking away their money. Sure, they are low budget ops, and sure, they're going to get really mad and behave worse for a while once they're all poor and hungry. But repeating the same thing over and over only to expect different results is.... well you know the answer.
Support renewables. Support drilling for oil here for weaning down phase. Support responsible coal gasification systems. Support hybrid and electric cars. Support DOT overhauls modeled after walmart efficiency. Yes, use less, but also mind who you reward with your consumer $ and your 401k plan $. Who does not have a vested interest in seeing america succeed? Who plays to lose in waning industry? Who has disposible income enough to really be energy independant as much as possible? Those who could afford to invest in that are the ones best insulated from all this mishagosh. Those who could least afford that investment are currently paying the most for basic needs. What happens to america, cost of living relative to minimum wage, when it no longer becomes cost effective to work?

Yes, we most certainly do need to pull together, because we rely upon each other for everything, and we can't afford to defend top 2%'s interests staying the course. Forget charity, take care of our own needs in house, lead by example, enable others to be independent, remove steam from unregulated misnomer 'free market'. That's the way up and out for everybody, not just for short sighted legislation steering benefits for the few who want status quo self preservation. Gov't, commerce, and citizens have to work together, not just dems and repubs.
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:59 PM
 
9,891 posts, read 10,826,878 times
Reputation: 3108
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
Why is it that ANWR seems to be the cure-all of choice for conservatives? Do you not realize we have viable alternatives RIGHT NOW? And no, its not the hydrogen car. ANWR will take a decade to drill and after that all it will do is buy you at the very most another decade or two of driving that Suburban and it still wont even come close to cutting out dependence on foreign oil. I am not against drilling ANWR, but it should have been done a decade ago.

The future is a combination of electric cars, hybrids, high speed rail, solar, and nuclear energy. Why are people in this country, especially conservatives save the nuclear plant issue, so afraid to embrace these?
Hey, Butch up Sally , we got us a rodeo! I am all for alternatives, but heres the gig, I live in reality, and the fantasy that you are going to replace oil with the wind and sun is , well, a fantasy! The real question is why are you guys so negative and pessimistic about oil, look I'll embrace all the silly alternative Ideas you got, but meanwhile lets suck every bit of oil left in the ground out!! Oh yeah, and it aint just anwr, we need to be drilling every single place one of those oil sniffing dogs thinks there might be oil, you know just like every other country who doesnt have a problem finding oil and getting it out of the ground!!

Last edited by silas777; 05-27-2008 at 08:23 PM..
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Old 05-27-2008, 08:04 PM
 
9,891 posts, read 10,826,878 times
Reputation: 3108
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfre81 View Post
Modern nuclear technology (light water reactors) are safer (as opposed to, say, Three Mile Island), but what keeps it from being the silver bullet is figuring out what to do with the waste. Nobody wants to be the country's nuclear waste dump.

Drilling in the ANWR, if it ever should have been done, it should have happened before consumption outstripped new oil discoveries (ca. 1980). They should have tapped it during the 1979 oil crisis at the latest, but that train has long pulled out of the station.

The "conservatives" (I don't like to glorify them with a noble term like that) are pushing ANWR drilling as the solution because - guess what - they have no real solution!
I learned to water ski at three mile Island and it dddddddidnt affffffect me none! Look we are wasting how many billions of dollars on the space program, from now on we load that nuculer waste on those shuttles and send into outer space! Think of the sunsets!! ANWR, Atlantic coast pacific coast north pole south pole colorado wyoming canada mexico, those are real solutions!!

Last edited by silas777; 05-27-2008 at 08:25 PM..
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Old 05-27-2008, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,943 posts, read 17,258,227 times
Reputation: 4686
Quote:
Originally Posted by silas777 View Post
Hey, Butch up Sally , we got us a rodeo! I am all for alternatives, but heres the gig, I live in reality, and the fantasy that you are going to replace oil with the wind and sun is , well, a fantasy! The real question is why are you guys so negative and pessimistic about oil, look I'll embrace all the silly alternative Ideas you got, but meanwhile lets suck every bit of oil left in the ground out!! Oh yeah, and it aint just anwr, we need to be drilling every single place one of those oil sniffing dogs thinks there might be oil, you know just like every other country who doesnt have a problem finding oil and getting it out of the ground!!
Any new oil drilling should ONLY be done to help with the transition. There is nothing good for the environment about continuing oil consumption as we have the past 50 years. Global warming aside, think of how much healthier our society could be if we cleaned up our air and water. Why are you so against that? Do you work for Exxon?
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Old 05-27-2008, 08:41 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,128,317 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
Any new oil drilling should ONLY be done to help with the transition. There is nothing good for the environment about continuing oil consumption as we have the past 50 years. Global warming aside, think of how much healthier our society could be if we cleaned up our air and water. Why are you so against that? Do you work for Exxon?
only be done to help with the transition? Transition to what exactly? Last I checked, there isnt any solar vehicles on the road..
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Old 05-27-2008, 08:44 PM
 
2,265 posts, read 3,733,667 times
Reputation: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by dorado0359 View Post
Just a few months "The Idiot" was interrupting national prime-time television on a weekly basis to sell the bogus war he inititiated. Fast forward 4 months or so, and now the American people are faced with the worst gasoline price increases IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES. Now, where is "The Idiot"? Why isn't "The Idiot" interrupting prime time television now... for a good reason...at a time when the American people need leadership to provide them with reassurance, confidence and answers during these tough times?

"The Idiot" has spoken. He is and always has been A WAR PRESIDENT, that is why he was "put" into office, that is what he will go down in history as. Sadly, I believe that as of right now, the country does not have a President...Washington D.C. is simply operating on cruise-control until the new administration (Please God, Not McCain) steps in and turn things around...hopefully.
Bush went into Iraq because Clinton was to scared. The regime and weapons of mass destruction had to be dealt with.
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Old 05-27-2008, 08:46 PM
 
Location: ✶✶✶✶
15,216 posts, read 30,566,366 times
Reputation: 10851
Quote:
Originally Posted by paullySC View Post
The...weapons of mass destruction...
Come again? Where are they?

Iraq happened because "he tried to kill my daddy!"

You talk like Bush has a bunch of courage or something. Bush is a draft-dodging AWOL chickenhawk who'd **** his pants if he saw anything close to actual combat. Now, before or ever.
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Old 05-27-2008, 08:54 PM
 
2,265 posts, read 3,733,667 times
Reputation: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfre81 View Post
Come again? Where are they?

Iraq happened because "he tried to kill my daddy!"

You talk like Bush has a bunch of courage or something. Bush is a draft-dodging AWOL chickenhawk who'd **** his pants if he saw anything close to actual combat. Now, before or ever.
Everyone thought they were there. They were probably mobile and moved into Syria and Iran, it's not like he didn't have more than enough notice that the invasion was coming.
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Old 05-27-2008, 09:10 PM
 
9,891 posts, read 10,826,878 times
Reputation: 3108
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
Any new oil drilling should ONLY be done to help with the transition. There is nothing good for the environment about continuing oil consumption as we have the past 50 years. Global warming aside, think of how much healthier our society could be if we cleaned up our air and water. Why are you so against that? Do you work for Exxon?
like I said I am not against it, but lets be real, the whole enviroment argument is just silly nonsense. Do you work for Exxon? what kind of juvenile ignorant question is that?
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Old 05-27-2008, 09:11 PM
 
9,891 posts, read 10,826,878 times
Reputation: 3108
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfre81 View Post

Iraq happened because "he tried to kill my daddy!"

.
I thought it was a war for oil?
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