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Old 05-05-2023, 08:13 AM
 
495 posts, read 334,621 times
Reputation: 1127

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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
That's a myth of "creative accounting." The National Debt INCREASED every year prior to W's terms.
Like the creative accounting that simply kept the costs of the Iraq war off the books while W was in office? That creative accounting? Or how about the Trump tax cuts for ordinary people sunsetting after 10 years?

 
Old 05-05-2023, 08:14 AM
 
14,131 posts, read 5,713,006 times
Reputation: 8751
Quote:
Originally Posted by michigan lizard View Post
I blame W. He was handed budget surpluses as far as the eye could see. Instead of using them to pay down the debt, he sent everyone a check for $100. Then, he started an expensive and completely unnecessary war in Iraq based upon false pretenses. That was the beginning of our downfall--the idiot Republican had a golden opportunity and blew it up.
So much silly...

The 1st Internet boom grew GDP faster than Congress could figure out how to outspend it, same as the appliance/TV boom of the mid 60s did for that two year mini-surplus. Also, you sure you want to give credit away to a GOP House and Senate for that "surplus" they handed to Dubyah?

Second, the actual invasion of Iraq in 2003 was simply putting existing US policy from 1998 into action. You do know that using US military force to remove Saddam Hussein from power was signed into law 27 months before Dubyah even became President, right? He didn't create that foreign policy, he simply followed through with it. Same as when Trump actually moved the US embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. That was existing US law for more than two decades, but instead of perpetually fence sitting and delaying the implementation of that law, he followed it exactly as prescribed.

Finally, you do know that Presidents have not a thing to do with the actual federal outlay, right? They can recommend, demand, etc, but ALL laws related to taxation and spending originate in, are debated in and then voted on in the US House. All the Senate and POTUS can do is say yea or nay. Every single FY, the US House is who you credit/blame for any spending whatsoever. All the Senate and POTUS can do is make recommendations/demands, and the House ultimately decides on what does and does not get spent. Always and forever, since the Constitution was ratified.
 
Old 05-05-2023, 08:26 AM
 
14,131 posts, read 5,713,006 times
Reputation: 8751
Quote:
Originally Posted by michigan lizard View Post
How very regressive of you.
Uhm, you do know that I find all forms of taxation to be organized systems of theft, oppression and tyranny, right?

Regressive or progressive, same theft, same oppression, same tyranny. I only ever throw out national sales tax, like most of Europe's various VATs, as about as "fair" as one can make an organized theft racket. The individual's behaviors and choices dictate their individual level of taxation.

And hey, all you tax 'n' spend junkies are the ones who slobber all over the EU's nuts, particularly Scandinavia, where the VAT is typically as high or higher (20-35%) than even the highest proposed NRT in the US (23%), and unlike the NRT proposals in the US which are all meant to REPLACE every other form of taxation, the EU's various VATs are ON TOP OF an already punitive and regressive system of taxation.

If it was up to me, and I grudgingly allowed any form of central national government to continue to exist, I'd take taxes back to how they were setup in 1790. Excise taxes and tariffs. Lasted from 1789 until 1913 and the passage of the worst piece of tyranny in US history - the 16th Amendment. But honestly, I'd be a lot happier if the entire national government was dismantled entirely and at most, we were back in some articles of confederation setup of independent, sovereign state governments...AT MOST.
 
Old 05-05-2023, 08:27 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,597 posts, read 18,669,466 times
Reputation: 35335
The Republicans didn't cut spending for the same reason the Democrats didn't cut spending.

All Congress knows how to do is SPEND. And a debt limit doesn't phase them because it always gets raised.

73 times it was raised over the past 65 years.
 
Old 05-05-2023, 08:29 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,511 posts, read 45,198,773 times
Reputation: 13850
Quote:
Originally Posted by michigan lizard View Post
Like the creative accounting that simply kept the costs of the Iraq war off the books while W was in office? That creative accounting? Or how about the Trump tax cuts for ordinary people sunsetting after 10 years?
If the cost was "off the books," how did it end up getting added to the National Debt?
 
Old 05-05-2023, 08:36 AM
 
14,131 posts, read 5,713,006 times
Reputation: 8751
Quote:
Originally Posted by michigan lizard View Post
Explain how regressive taxation is a good thing.
Everyone pays the same percentage, thus no personal aspect of life is rewarded or punished, meaning the government does not pick and choose who to treat more or less justly?

If everyone paid a flat 20% sales tax, and that was our method taxation, nobody is treated unfairly (other than the inherent unfairness of taxation generally, that is). A $0.25 pack of Raman caries the same 20% tax rate as a 12 oz aged filet. A 6 pack of PBR carries the same 20% tax rate as a $300 bottle of Macallan. A $3k beater car carries the same 20% tax rate as a $125k Corvette. Every good, every service, every choice = one rate of taxation. Thus, your choices then dictate how much actual tax you pay.

A national sales tax also makes it harder for the rich to avoid taxes. They are still going to buy things, and probably expensive, rich people things. Taxation at the point of sale = nowhere to hide. My $5 meal at Taco Bell ends up as $1 in taxes, their $300 meal at fancy steakhouse means they just paid $60 in taxes. The rate didn't change, our choices did.

Letting the individual dictate their own level of taxation is as fair as you can possibly make any system of taxes. Regressive simply means "not using the tax code to buy votes."
 
Old 05-05-2023, 08:40 AM
 
3,455 posts, read 1,506,222 times
Reputation: 3905
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Why not focus on the here and now...

Inflation reduction act...went from $385 billion to over $1 trillion.
Any comment on current news ?
Perfectly reasonable question. It’s clear the MAGAs are far more interested in playing to their base which equates to bashing Biden, than they are interested in sensible fiscal policy. I would note that your absurd response is like a Democrat giving your same answer when asked why didn’t the Democrats increase the debt ceiling in the previous Congress? The answer is they should have…they ****ed that up good.
 
Old 05-05-2023, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
22,010 posts, read 25,367,265 times
Reputation: 19222
Quote:
Originally Posted by michigan lizard View Post
This--100%
They blow up the budget then wring their hands and point fingers after the dems take over.
Budget down 1 Trillion under Biden. Biden is not particularly good, just better than terrible.
 
Old 05-05-2023, 08:46 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,511 posts, read 45,198,773 times
Reputation: 13850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
Everyone pays the same percentage, thus no personal aspect of life is rewarded or punished, meaning the government does not pick and choose who to treat more or less justly?

If everyone paid a flat 20% sales tax, and that was our method taxation, nobody is treated unfairly (other than the inherent unfairness of taxation generally, that is). A $0.25 pack of Raman caries the same 20% tax rate as a 12 oz aged filet. A 6 pack of PBR carries the same 20% tax rate as a $300 bottle of Macallan. A $3k beater car carries the same 20% tax rate as a $125k Corvette. Every good, every service, every choice = one rate of taxation. Thus, your choices then dictate how much actual tax you pay.

A national sales tax also makes it harder for the rich to avoid taxes. They are still going to buy things, and probably expensive, rich people things. Taxation at the point of sale = nowhere to hide. My $5 meal at Taco Bell ends up as $1 in taxes, their $300 meal at fancy steakhouse means they just paid $60 in taxes. The rate didn't change, our choices did.

Letting the individual dictate their own level of taxation is as fair as you can possibly make any system of taxes. Regressive simply means "not using the tax code to buy votes."
Agree. Great post!

Would rep you again if I could.
 
Old 05-05-2023, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Where my bills arrive
19,342 posts, read 17,250,159 times
Reputation: 15641
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreggT View Post
And what about the 50% that pay ZERO Federal Income tax, what is their "fair share"?
If there below the poverty level and trying to survive I have no issue, if they are doing it by creative money hiding I have an issue. What source is claiming that its 50%
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