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The Arab world doesn't feel that Israel, as a state, has the right to exist, and continually cite the expulsion of non-Jewish individuals in the late 40's. The problem with this, however, is that the particular strip of land, now known as Israel, is one of the most conquered regions in the world. Before the modern Israelis were there, it was largely Arab (though with a large number of Christians and Jews). The Arabs, however, were themselves conquerers. Throughout history, the region has been controlled by Rome, The Byzantine Empire, the Israelites, the Babylonians, the Persians, the Greeks, and the Assyrians. The Israelites have the longest-standing modern claim on region, although they replaced the Canaanites (although the Israelis may have originally been themselves Canaanites).
Bottom line? Nobody is in the right, and the answer to the question "Who fired first?" is lost to history. Also, this isn't something you can couch in the language of an 'eye for an eye.' If you provoke a people (by indiscriminately killing civilians) who have a modern military and a reputation of ferocity, you'd better expect a heavy-handed and brutal response. Which, in reality, is probably their intention. The lopsided figures of dead Israelis to dead Palestinians are certain to make Israel look bad and garner pity for Palestine from the rest of world. Judging by some of the posts here, I'd say it's working.
Thank you for such a balanced and reasonable post. While this will likely remain a very controversial topic due to the long history of being the origins of the strongest held beliefs, religious beliefs to which everyone believes theirs is the superior one.
I remember a quote by a Jesuit Priest who once said, "Every time anyone says that Israel is our only friend in the Middle East, I can't help but think that before Israel, we had no enemies in the Middle East." - John Sheehan
Prior to 1948, was the conflict between Jew, Muslim, and Christian this contentious and brutal, save the first century AD? To my understanding, all three got along relatively reasonably, save for the occasional problem.
As you pointed out the disparity of numbers of killed and wounded granting the Palestinians sympathy for their appx 10 to 1 loss rate of people. Out of this rough ratio, how many of those "10" were civilians and not actually militants? Is this sympathy not deserved?
One of the more interesting twists of the whole Israeli-Palestinian-US-UN issue is that the UN or at the time, League of Nations created Israel out of thin air and nearly the entire world accepts this as Israeli rights to exist as a nation. Yet at the very same time the greatest transgressor of UN security/human rights violations is Israel by a huge margin and the response is that the UN doesn't count or is biased against the very nation they created out of thin air.
Of course these discussions will then be followed by cries of antisemitism to which I could then point to the Neturei Karta group of Orthodox Jews against Zionism and the state of Israel that has been around since a decade before the birth of Israel. To which then someone will point out that these True Torah Jews are self hating Jews (which then makes the person saying this antisemitic) for believing that Israel was to be granted by God and not by the hand of men.
Over 2000 years and we still haven't found who threw the first stone and will all these nuanced and strongly held notions and beliefs among a large number of armed individuals willing to die and to kill in the name of these beliefs, this is where the United States, half the world away, wishes to relate with above all others. We are either nuts and gluttons for punishment.
Having seen djacques posts in this thread, I'd say he/she has absolutely nothing against Jews. Stop using Jews and the Israeli Army, or even Jews and Zionists, as synonyms. Every time somebody says something anti-Israel, you Zionists accuse them of being anti-semetic. You zionists yourselfs are anti-semetics, murdering Arab civilians as if they weren't worth life for decades.
I remember a quote by a Jesuit Priest who once said, "Every time anyone says that Israel is our only friend in the Middle East, I can't help but think that before Israel, we had no enemies in the Middle East." - John Sheehan.
Absolutely correct! In 1948 Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Libya and Syria all had pro-U.S. governments.
"The Muslims" have not been waging a "jihad" against Israel for 60 years.
The Palestinians, some of whom are Muslim, some Christian, some secular, some probably Buddhist for all you know--have been waging a war of national liberation against Israel for 60 years, that is, since Israel drove 700,000 of them off their lands at gunpoint. Without any distinctions being made between Muslims, Christians, secularists, etc. All their lands were stolen.
Wrong. The UN mandated the establishment of Israel through the partition of Palestine in 1947. The Palestinians and their Arab supporters were the invaders and the gun-pointers. Unfortunatley for them, the Jews refused to permit another Holocaust and drove them off in cowardly disarray...
In 1947, the United Nations approved the partition of Palestine into two states, one Jewish and one Arab.[9] On May 14, 1948 the state of Israel declared independence and this was followed by a war with the surrounding Arab states, which refused to accept the plan.
It's not name-calling. You lied, simple and plain.
Oh, where? Do you deny that this thread is rife with your mendacity and your loathing for Jews?
You have a problem with the truth and with those evil hebrews.
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