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It's impossible to have a debate on this forum with people who refuse to look at facts and figures.. who are completely closed off to anything REAL... how can you NOT see the correlation between the two. I didn't say that everyone that looses their job will declare bankruptcy due to medicall bills.. but for anyone who loses their job when sick and then looses their insurance as a result will.
Hmm... sick.. loose job.. lose health insurance.. still sick so you need to go to the doctor but have no insurance to go..no money (loss of income due to loss of job) to pay for said medical care... get it anyway to save your life.. get the bill..but again.. have no job to pay it..
So.. to get the bill collectors off your back and to get out for the probably 100's of thousands of dollars you've racked up in health bills you will now declare bankruptcy!
Wow..you are really clueless
It's impossible to debate something with people who are living with blinders on who can't possible see, comprehend, acknowledge situations beyond their own experiences.. It requires compassion and empathy to understand circumstances and things beyond someone's "control" or "personal responsibility" to really understand the healthcare issue.
So many people think they were being "responsible" only to find out that no matter HOW responsible they were, the system is designed to work against them.. chew them and spit them out. It's amazing how , in one day, things can flip on a dime and your life can be turned upside down.. and suddenly you find yourself in with the rest of us... watch out.. life has a funny way of sneaking up on you!
You should really start looking beyond your own nose.. really really really educate yourself about healthcare in this country, it's problems and come back with ACTUAL INFORMATION rather than party line rhetoric and hyperbole..
I've made my case.. the information,numbers, statistics, real life situations etc etc.. are ALL THERe. EVERYTHING I've said, I've backed up with facts, figures and studies..
All you've done is spew party line nonsense with NOTHING to bac them up..
being to sick to work doesn't have anything to do with not having insurance. Those two can be related but not always. What if the person who loses their job is already on spouse's insurance. Just the lost of income is reason enough for most americans to declare bankruptcy due to our inability to save for the unknown.
Remember what "assuming" does.
Health care is a right. That’s why you get rushed to the emergency when you get hit by a car.
Do emergency workers search your wallet to make sure you have health insurance coverage before they take to the ER? Can Doctors choose not treat you because you can't afford to pay?
Bottom line is YOU ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR OTHER PEOPLES HEALTH CARE! This needs to be repeated again and again to all the people talking about personal responsibility. Maybe you could come up with a system in which the "freeloaders" will have to contribute to the system instead of whining and complaining about the inevitable.
It all comes down to what kind of a society do you want to live in. We believe that human life sacred that’s why people do everything possible to save someone's life. If our society really worked the way some posters wanted it to work then we'd be able to watch people die without health care.
However, we already have a very expensive, inefficient and immoral form of universal healthcare. Every reasonable person in the health care industry realizes that it has serious problems. So health care reform is inevitable. The question is what type of reform is it going to be. Already drug companies and insurance companies are pushing for "reform" and they are probably going to get it unless people wake up and realize what’s going on.
I watched a Frontline report on health care and it gave the story of a young woman who died of Lupus, which is a very treatable disease, because she could not get health care. At same time she managed to rack up close to 1 million dollars in health care expenses that she could not afford. Who do you think is going to pay for that? No one is a winner.
There probably will be changes pushed by the people calling the shots (ie. health care industry) and its not going to be good as long as people keep bickering over the naive extremes of "free" health care for all vs. i won't pay for other people.
sorry if I don't think the gov't can fix healthcare. Look at medicare. Decreased coverage, decreased payments to doctor, refusal to pay for tests or to maintain home health equipment.
If you want the gov't to come in a set some new regulations i am listening, but a complete overhaul by the gov't of my career and my wife's healthcare, I will continue to fight.
This same 46-48 million number of uninsured that keeps getting spread around by proponents of a UHS is being quoted from a Census Bureau study about health care in 2007. http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/p60-235.pdf
What they don't tell you about the numbers is interesting:
1. 9.7 million of those are not US citizens
2. 17.5 million of those make over $50,000 a year
3. 10 million were age 18-64 and didn't work
so if you take out the foreigners and people who choose not to pay for healthcare even though they can afford it, you are left with approx 20 million uninsured. Out of 300 million people. That is less than 7% of the population.
So we need UHS to take care of 7% of the population. Isn't that wonderful.
Well then since Canada supports a universal health care model and it is so easy for non-citizens to get on that health care system then why don't we just solve all our health care issues by running up to Canada and getting the free health care there like the Mexicans do here? Right? If that is how it works?
Universal Health Care + immigrants. What your brain isn't telling you.
But I think it is up to DOCTORS to make those decisions not beaurocrats.
Come again? It's up to the doctor to make the decision to deny treatment?
First of all, the decision whether to have treatment or not should be up to the patient. Right now, if you're under 65, the insurance company bureaucrats make the decision. Not your doc, no way!
Excuse me. but medicine consists of MORE than just "technology".. give me a break!! Medicine wasn't even a real thing then..
they had no supermarkets and had to hunt their own food..
I agree. Life was MUCH harder 200 years ago than it is today. Yet somehow, folks got by without the government holding their hands.
Such a hard life might actually lead to hard work. Hard work might lead to pride and self-respect. Pride and self-respect might lead to lower crime rates, lower rates of substance abuse, etc. Oh no, the horror!
Where Obama indeed lied is that they will pay for the program with savings. It has never happened in any program in the history of this counhtry. His numbers do not agree with any other estimates including the congressioanl budget office. The whtehouse numbers come from the same people who said that spending 758 billion in their stimulus program would keep unemployment below 8% while others disagreed. Well its now at 9.7% ;so whose math are you going to believe. The number sin cost only get higher in outlying years.
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