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ANd how is that flawed or misrepresented? People lose their jobs, they can't pay for health insurance nor healthcare and it leads to bills that pile up and cause them to declare bankruptcy DUH.
In an NHS type system of Universal Coverage.. such job losses wouldn't affect the persons ability to recieve healthcare nor cause them to have to go itno bankruptcy.
BTW.. what happens when you're sick with cancer , can't work and lose your job AND lose your insurance.. that you so obviously need to keep battling your cancer... DUH.. of course people who go bankrupt have lost their jobs...... Think about it.. access to healthcare is tied to employers right now... and it shouldn't be
How does losing your job due to your health = declaring bankruptcy due to hospital bills. They are not one and the same.
Maybe it is brain damage from all the smacks to the head.
They cry about the COST of healthcare.. wether they had those cars or not.. health insurance shouldnt take up 21% of a FAMILIES INCOME!!! If I had 2 cars that cost that much too I would still say the cost of healthcare is WAY TOO HIGH FOR THE AVERAGE PERSON.
BTW..if you look at the report that they posted the "average" household doesn't spend 12K a year on cars.. Transportation was around $8,000/year and that could include ALL FORMS of transportation (think commuters, gas, maintenance, insurance for said transportation)..
So your "friends" are not the "average".. and if they are still paying for healthcare they haven't sacraficed a priority so that they can have their "car"... and they are STILL completey right about bitching about the cost of healthcare.. Health insurance is equivalent to a SECOND MORTGAGE these days
BTW.. I'm not sure what "model" they are operating off of.. if it's not working..it's not the right formula.. again the UK system is excellent and the Swiss plan is not too bad either.
Maybe you should read up on it and get some knowledge on it so you actually know what you're talking about rather than just spewing rhetoric
So how much should healthcare cost? What is the price to live a long and healthy life?
Maybe most of us in healthcare should all take paycuts so you can afford your house, 2 cars and health insurance. I mean, most of us only make less than the clowns up in detroit putting cars together.
This just ridiculous. It's really no different than how insurance works and they only deny treatment if it is in the experimental stage (which most insurance does too) or has been proven to be ineffective (which most insurance does too).
Actually, my grandmother is British, is pretty wealthy and has her own private insurance. She has NEVER used it! She is in her mid to late 80s now. Wanna talk about waiting lists in the US? People dye all the time here in the US with and without insurance on waiting lists (and I'm not even talking about organ transplant lists). My neighbor made an appointment two months ago for her son to see a neurologist. They called because they had to reschedule another two months out. So that is four months she is having to wait for a CHILD with insurance. This is in a large metro area. There are shortages of doctors all over.
But really, noone is saying, not even Obama, that we have to do it just like the UK or just like Canada, or just like the French. Most reasonable people recognize there is a big problem.
I know this is just one person but here is a great article written by a card carrying Canadian who has used the US System extensively. Read it just to get a different perspective from someone who has actually experienced it: Mythbusting Canadian Health Care -- Part I | OurFuture.org
For the record, you can't use the British and Canadians complaining about their healthcare as examples because people will complain about anything. I hear of people with great insurance complaining about doctors and the insurance company all the time.
actually, ask your grandmother is she stopped breathing if they would put her on a ventilator or if her kidneys failed, they would give her dialysis. This has nothing to do with experimental treatments and everything to do with who get's to decide if you get treatment or not.
And yes there is a shortage for some specialties everywhere, no matter what country it is. just like the US is going to sue all the OB's out of business.
Just what I thought. Good for you that you have a job and that your employer is chipping in a chunk of cash for your insurance, with you contributing "only" $5460/year. Won't it change anything for you if the employer were to get out of the picture and the burden taken over by, just you? But don't talk boldly that people making $50K can actually afford to pay $12K on insurance, when much of it doesn't even go towards healthcare but paying the dues to the middle men. Let me then ask, why do you love the middle men so much?
And forget the reality that if people have used their employer sponsored insurance, they may never find any of those middle men to write a policy and cover them. This doesn't occur to you, does it?
I certainly do expect government to fix it, a lot more than expecting private companies that have a tendency to corrupt the government to take care of the issue. It is why I prefer to have the right people in the government, not one to have beer with. You speak of 10 million uninsured children, and that is exactly why we need more help from the government. Private companies ain't doing it. And government is trying, even as many from within criticize any such action (SCHIP).
As for medicare, it is the government than people like you (and the middle men) that hate the idea of any healthcare reform that will also address it. Again, the choice is to rid ourselves of it (are you up for it?) or expect the middle men to take care of it... think about it, as you keep your hatred towards any step taken by the government.
my employer covers all of $50 a paycheck, so no they don't cover much. And I'm pretty sure that the insurance agencies are willing to drop the pre-existing conditions clause as long as gov't makes healthcare mandatory. They can't just insure the ill, that's not how insurance works.
I am criticizing a gov't system (medicare) that preaches prevention, but then refuses to cover the cost of an annual physical. Next time you are at the doc's office look at the signs.
And there is no reason for kids already not to be covered. CHIP will cover the ones who parents can't pay, and people who can pay should pay.
I am really curious to see how much y'all think healthcare should cost. Apparently y'all have no clue.
it amazes me that so many want the gov't to step in and save healthcare in regards to fraud, waste and abuse, when the gov't is the number one entity out there for those things.
I choked from laughing about that one! A fairly large mid-size company like the one DH works for offers one choice: take it or leave it! And since all the insurance companies operate basically the same, there's no incentive for them to improve themselves, particularly in the line of customer service. Just yesterday, I was trying to get a prior authorization for a patient; it took me about 6 calls to the company to get a real person who could help me b/c what I needed wasn't in the "menu", then I got almost done, and I got cut off, had to start all over again! Finally got it done, spent probably an hour doing it, just to get them to send our office a fax so the dr. can fill it out.
I've never been a subscriber to the slippery slope line of logic.
maybe the employees need to complain for more choices.
We have 2 choices, HMO and PPO and the PPO comes with lots of options. We have the HMO and so far, nothing has been turned down and I have a wife that is disabled. I wonder under a gov't plan if she can get her nerve stimulator replaced when the battery dies, or the intrathecal pump for that matter.
Here is something he hasnt told everyone.... When Bush passed Medicare D he had no source of funds and it will ultimately cost more than SS. It will grow and take over 20% of the US budget... and you think we have problems now? Who do you suppose benefits from this bill? Could it be large pharmaceutical companies? Do you suppose maybe we need to cancel it?
so the senior citizens who can now get their pills don't benefit from it?
I wonder when we go to this UHS, who is going to foot the bill for medical research that we almost primarily do now?
Say goodbye to new cancer drugs.
And new heart and diabetes medicines. Why pay for the research if you can't make any money off of the pills?
You clearly fear death, which proves my point. You will vote yourself into poverty to live another day. We all die by the way. I haven't found anyone that has a monopoly on that but throughout history it's riddled with people willing to do anything to circumvent it. If one person is "impoverished" that's just cause to add trillions more onto the obligation. If we have 267 million Americans that are insured and have a medicare program that is obligated for $32 trillion, what would another 40 million people added to the system do? So far all we get is that it'll get cheaper despite facts pointing otherwise.
that's right. We spend more in healthcare the last 6 months of our "lives" than in the rest of it combined. "Gotta keep grandma alive a few more months, she's almost 100."
What they don't tell you about the numbers is interesting:
1. 9.7 million of those are not US citizens
2. 17.5 million of those make over $50,000 a year
3. 10 million were age 18-64 and didn't work
Your numbers may be correct however it doesn't include those who are insured but barely, those who think they have great insurance until they get that life threatening illness, those making $50,000 year and paying $10000for insurance and don't know if next year when the price goes up more than 10% if they will continue to be able to afford it, those who have insurance but don't use it because they are afraid they are going to be dropped, those that can only afford insurance for major catastrophe's so don't visit a doctor regularly or the companies that can no longer afford to supply insurance or those that keep passing on the price to their employees. Lucky all of you who have great insurance from your employer enjoy it because your day may come where you are in the same boat as many of us.
they also don't include the fact that over 70% of those ininsured were uninsured less than 4 months. they considered you uninsured even if it was only 1 day of the year.
So let's look at the costs of healthcare:
1. Over ordering tests and procedures.
but why do they order so many dang tests? Ask any doc and they will tell you. Fear of lawsuits. Frivilous lawsuits are the number one problem with healthcare. Doctors have to charge more, to pay for ever increasing malpractice insurance premiums. They have to run more tests to CYA. I konw doctors that can tell what is wrong with the pt just by a simple physical exam, then have to order $5000 in tests to make sure. Hospital visits cost more, which increases insurance costs, so rates go up.
2. Abuse of the Healthcare System
I would love to hear how you or anyone else is going to keep people from abusing the ER. People these days don't want to share in the responsibility for their healthcare. Noncompliant diabetics, heart patients, seizure pt's. Personal accountability has gone out the window.
But if you could fix those two things, I think costs would come down.
3. Ever increasing technology. Those MRI and CT machines const millions of dollars. Robotic arms for surgery, dialysis. Everything costs more. We could all be like daschle and decide just not to invent new and better (and more expensive) medical treatments. (since they are not cost effective)
It took 15 pages of responses to find the one person that understands the reasons healthcare costs are so high. As usual, it all goes back to personal responsibility.
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