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We don't have to be like them, but we can certainly learn from it. And if numbers are really important, then remember, those 5-10 million people have a system which is supported by only 5-10 million people.
Yes it is. And in states where they are as close in population density as those countries are then it may work. However when the federal government does it, it'll subsidize states where it won't make sense for "fairness". We'll end up with the same mess as we have now where our biggest state is in financial trouble because a vast amount of it's wealth is shipped out else where, and most likely that idea got someone elected in other states. We are on a continual path of ending up as one big central planning cluster.
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Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost
And yet, what we have is an unconditional support by many to maintain status quo and avoid health care reform at any cost.
When people stop living longer and longer and equipment get's cheaper and cheaper while schooling also get's cheaper then this will be a viable option. (not really, it'll never be an option because people will vote themselves into poverty if they can live one more day)
Let's not kid ourselves though the red tape is from the government.
Ask your representative, if he/she likes the government run health program. And get back to me.
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In the free market if people didn't like their insurance company they would have an abundance of other choices.
Which country do you live in? Is this why you love the middle men?
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As soon as government steps in those choices start becoming limited till eventually the government has no choice but to run the whole thing.
What choices? Explain.
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You'll see it happen in every industry and in every sector till one day you receive your monthly lunch menu. You ride on the bus to your daily work placement. You get your daily work assignment. You'll be given a "storage" spot. You will have a daily exercise requirement. Wait, I already did all that when I was 5-17 years old. You people really want a perpetual K-12 school type of life? that's what you are voting for when you vote to freely give up what little freedoms you do have left.
Seriously, which world do you live in, where the middle men would put any charity to shame...
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Originally Posted by BigJon3475
Yes it is. And in states where they are as close in population density as those countries are then it may work. However when the federal government does it, it'll subsidize states where it won't make sense for "fairness". We'll end up with the same mess as we have now where our biggest state is in financial trouble because a vast amount of it's wealth is shipped out else where, and most likely that idea got someone elected in other states. We are on a continual path of ending up as one big central planning cluster.
Explain, how. Are you also suggesting that socialistic programs are better in smaller countries?
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When people stop living longer and longer and equipment get's cheaper and cheaper while schooling also get's cheaper then this will be a viable option. (not really, it'll never be an option because people will vote themselves into poverty if they can live one more day)
Let's not kid ourselves though the red tape is from the government. In the free market if people didn't like their insurance company they would have an abundance of other choices.
I choked from laughing about that one! A fairly large mid-size company like the one DH works for offers one choice: take it or leave it! And since all the insurance companies operate basically the same, there's no incentive for them to improve themselves, particularly in the line of customer service. Just yesterday, I was trying to get a prior authorization for a patient; it took me about 6 calls to the company to get a real person who could help me b/c what I needed wasn't in the "menu", then I got almost done, and I got cut off, had to start all over again! Finally got it done, spent probably an hour doing it, just to get them to send our office a fax so the dr. can fill it out.
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As soon as government steps in those choices start becoming limited till eventually the government has no choice but to run the whole thing. You'll see it happen in every industry and in every sector till one day you receive your monthly lunch menu. You ride on the bus to your daily work placement. You get your daily work assignment. You'll be given a "storage" spot. You will have a daily exercise requirement. Wait, I already did all that when I was 5-17 years old. You people really want a perpetual K-12 school type of life? that's what you are voting for when you vote to freely give up what little freedoms you do have left.
I've never been a subscriber to the slippery slope line of logic.
I choked from laughing about that one! A fairly large mid-size company like the one DH works for offers one choice: take it or leave it! And since all the insurance companies operate basically the same, there's no incentive for them to improve themselves, particularly in the line of customer service. Just yesterday, I was trying to get a prior authorization for a patient; it took me about 6 calls to the company to get a real person who could help me b/c what I needed wasn't in the "menu", then I got almost done, and I got cut off, had to start all over again! Finally got it done, spent probably an hour doing it, just to get them to send our office a fax so the Dr. can fill it out.
You just defined monopolies. Monopolies only exist because government allows them to. Why would government have interest in allowing a company to get too big to fail? Lobbying seems to come to mind. I don't know if you noticed but there are several small companies popping up offering more localized insurance programs and it doesn't have separate entities to take care of each, the care center does or wants to do it. The problem is government is not allowing them to provide health care like this because of the red tape and all the paperwork that comes with it. If it were made available people would have other options than big conglomerates. The kicker to one of the ways he could do it cheaper was digitized records or paperless (whatever the PC name is for it). I believe I saw you in another thread as a proponent of this.
None of this really matters anyways. My position is impossible because the private and government have both plotted together to kill the other factor, the individual. The only thing left is the slippery slope. It may not be a fast slip though. So far it seems to have taken over two centuries to slip to where we are today, further than ever from the intentions of this great nation's founding members.
The above is a far cry from this comment of yours:
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Originally Posted by BigJon3475
Let's not kid ourselves though the red tape is from the government. In the free market if people didn't like their insurance company they would have an abundance of other choices.
Whether you call it a monopoly or whatever, we don't have choice for the most part, nor do we have any service!
Yes, I'm a proponent of EMRs. I think some of the stimulus money is allocated for helping offices switch to EMRs. They are more efficient, but it is expensive to do the switch.
You just defined monopolies. Monopolies only exist because government allows them to. Why would government have interest in allowing a company to get too big to fail? Lobbying seems to come to mind. I don't know if you noticed but there are several small companies popping up offering more localized insurance programs and it doesn't have separate entities to take care of each, the care center does or wants to do it. The problem is government is not allowing them to provide health care like this because of the red tape and all the paperwork that comes with it. If it were made available people would have other options than big conglomerates. The kicker to one of the ways he could do it cheaper was digitized records or paperless (whatever the PC name is for it). I believe I saw you in another thread as a proponent of this.
None of this really matters anyways. My position is impossible because the private and government have both plotted together to kill the other factor, the individual. The only thing left is the slippery slope. It may not be a fast slip though. So far it seems to have taken over two centuries to slip to where we are today, further than ever from the intentions of this great nation's founding members.
Oh.. there is choice... there are smaller insurance companies that offer "cheap" coverage. The problem with that "cheap" coverage is ..it's exactlyt hat. You don't get much for your money.
Oh.. and here's the other thing.. they are selective about WHO can buy thier product. NONE of the "choices" that exist here. .. don't exist for me. I get 1 choice.. and THAT is NOT by design of the Federal Government ..that's the companies choice.. oh.. and my premium.. Super expensive.. about 3x's the amount of those other choices... and out of reach for me.
Oh.. there is choice... there are smaller insurance companies that offer "cheap" coverage. The problem with that "cheap" coverage is ..it's exactlyt hat. You don't get much for your money.
Oh.. and here's the other thing.. they are selective about WHO can buy thier product. NONE of the "choices" that exist here. .. don't exist for me. I get 1 choice.. and THAT is NOT by design of the Federal Government ..that's the companies choice.. oh.. and my premium.. Super expensive.. about 3x's the amount of those other choices... and out of reach for me.
Sounds like you have a hard time making decisions for yourself. Or you feel trapped in your life. Neither of which I can really make much of a comment on.
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