Universal Health Care- What Obama isn't telling you (borders, revolution, millionaire)

[nrfitchett4]

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

I'm not understanding what you are getting at with that post.

First off.. if you look at how much is spent on housing it's around $16K. Housing is the HIGHEST expense!

Health insurance premiums for an average family of 4 is $12,700!! That is just about equivelent to paying a MORTGAGE.

There is also no breakdowns.. it's very general.

For example.. AVERAGE expenditure on healthcare was like $2853 and personal insurance was like $5800. But that includes EVERYONE.. and includes those that are insured through work adn do not pay premiums? Is that number strictly out of pocket , or does that include their employer contribution. entertainment was like $2600/year.. not really out of line. Transportation could include car insurance, gas and maintenance.

I don't see anything really outlandish here??

As far as teh tax code.. i think we need to do away with giving people a return for more than they actually paid... but the whole tax thing is on another thread (referencing your percentages, that is)

How does this report tie into how people take care of themselves??

I know people that have 2 cars with 1000/ mo payments that cry about paying for healthcare.
Maybe someday the US can get it's priorities straight on what is important.

[LogicIsYourFriend]

Originally Posted by nrfitchett4

so how does gov't healthcare fix anything then? I will still be paying extra on my taxes because I make more, for insurance for my neighbor. So you sitll haven't fixed the problem, you just got the gov't involved to muddled it up further.

Because there won't be insurance companies gambling with your health for huge house odds in their favor. Think how much more we could save (money and lives) without the middle man racking up the premiums and denying the coverage to less profitable people for personal profit.

[FinkieMcGee]

Originally Posted by LauraC

You don't get it. They want to change everyone's healthcare, overhaul the entire system, to fix a 7% problem. Just fix it for the 7%.

That's always the problem, they over-react and by the way, the Republicans passively go along with the Dems (aka don't make waves) because business wants out of providing healthcare benefits.

I just found it hilarious that he was willing to toss out 7% of the population (via his own calculations) that are apparently legitimately getting screwed. If not harboring a "**** you got mine" attitude is naive than I don't particularly care for your opinion.

There are other reasons that UHC should be instituted that are outside of "people don't have insurance", but in order to believe that those reasons exist I guess you'd have to be pretty naive.

I'm not even going to touch your xenophobic tripe regarding illegal immigrants.

[monkeywrenching]

Originally Posted by FinkieMcGee

So you don't give a **** about 7% of the population?

nope not at all, health is not a right and we should not be paying for it.

dont like, then move to your favorite european country that does provide for it.

[monkeywrenching]

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

Oh lordy lordy lordy.. You just eat what the right wing media feeds you don't you.. you must be hungry

Um.. if it was such a problem.. the number of people coming would be much larger

BTW.. most of the Canadians that come over the border within that .5% actually LIVE HERE during the Canadian winters.. they are called SNOWBIRDS!!! So they didn't neccesarily come here for the healthcare.. they came to live and happened to have it done while here or needed it while here.. it's all there in the article.

Oh.. and BTW.. we have wait times here in the U.S too. I made an appointment for an endocronologist here in NEPA about 3 weeks ago.. I can't get in to see any endocronologist until June 5th. There are wait times depending on population density vs the doctors in the area..

puhlease, please do not feed us the liberal line.

health insurance is a personal responsibility and not the federal goverments responsibility. if you want UHC then go someplace they have it. other countries have privilages and not rights.

no citizen in the USA should have to pay for someone elses health care, and the federal goverment should not be in the business of regulating health care either.

[irishvanguard]

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

Wow.. so I guess you are unaware that when you pay your insurance premium you are actually paying for someone else's healthcare Insurance operates on "pooled risk"

You are already paying for someone else's care in your premium.

You are paying for someone else's care in your medicaid/medicare taxes.

Oh.. and you are also paying for all those uninsured people who walk into an ER and can't and don't pay their bill, when the cost is then past on to the rest of us

Your response ignores paying by force of law for others' healthcare. I even put it in bold letters so that you would notice. But the imposition of force for daily activities that should be self-directed does not bother Democrats one little bit, does it?

Please do not give in to autocratic impulses, as our current government seems to be doing daily. It is imperative that we all resist those impulses, no matter how nice those benefits would be to us as individuals.

[irishvanguard]

Originally Posted by monkeywrenching

puhlease, please do not feed us the liberal line.

health insurance is a personal responsibility and not the federal goverments responsibility. if you want UHC then go someplace they have it. other countries have privilages and not rights.

no citizen in the USA should have to pay for someone elses health care, and the federal goverment should not be in the business of regulating health care either.

Thank you, thank you. But I do think that the regulation of parts of the system is very necessary (not the entire system).

[irishvanguard]

Originally Posted by nrfitchett4

I know people that have 2 cars with 1000/ mo payments that cry about paying for healthcare.
Maybe someday the US can get it's priorities straight on what is important.

Sorry I can't rep you again. But the priorities thing is spot-on.

[Mooseketeer]

Originally Posted by irishvanguard

Haven't found a Brit or a Canadian who is fond of their systems yet. (Unless they're 25 and have never been ill.)

Interesting because I have lived in the UK for over twenty years and have never met a Brit who would swap for private healthcare.

And having lived in the US for 3 years most people I met were pretty disatisfied with their healthcare, costs and treatment.


Having a pre-existing condition for a start mean you are basically given a death sentence if something serious occurs. Unless you are Millionaire. even then it can possibly still eat into your capital pretty quickly.

Being French I also don't know any French people for would either, having lived in Germany, Austria , Italy and Spain same thing too.

And I am over 25 , had to fight through 10 years of Leukaemia and am now disabled.

The NHS in the UK is hardly perfect I grant you that but being poor does not have to mean death or having to sell your house to pay for treatment.

I have had to use the NHS over and over again in the last few years and it has still a long way to go to be completely user friendly, no denying it but I would never have chosen the American system over it. Not in a million years.

I suspect that should the UK government ( or any other European Nations for that matter , including the very right wing ones ) ever decide to do away with National Universal Healthcare the country would erupt into bloddy Revolution and it would be political suicide.


As for France it is still the best healthcare in the world , with top hospitals usin the very latest in medical techniques and equipment, no waiting lists and the patient is always in charge . You want a new specialist because you don't like your current one, you open your yellow pages, and make an appointment. A right wing country with Universal healthcare which works. Wow. What a shock. It can be done.

The most my Grand-Parents ( as an example because of being people who during their last years of life went from procedures to procedures for various ailments ) had to wait to see a specialist was about 4 days. For an Operation if not urgent it was about 2 weeks, if urgent ( but not emergency) under a week. Hardly the woes some Americans believe.

French Healthcare is also excellent in terms of preventative medicine with regular check ups and Doctors try to stop the problem before if occurs ( early detection is huge in France) and palliative care. The country is also dotted with excellent recuperation hospitals so that emergency hospital beds are not tied up and home nursing is also an option if you prefer that as a patient.

What's more I know a lot of medical staff in Europe both as a patient and socially , Doctors, Surgeons, Nurses , Specialists and not one of them would change to a private healthcare.

Healthcare should be a universal human right. Any civilised society worthy of the name would refuse to allow poverty to be a bar to healthcare access.

Universal healthcare can work. It will never be perfect but I think the US are hardly the country to throw stones considering the millions uninsured.

The American health system is the most expensive in the world ( almost twice as much as the French system) and delivers very little.


http://www.boston.com/news/globe/edi...thcare_system/

[nrfitchett4]

Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend

Because there won't be insurance companies gambling with your health for huge house odds in their favor. Think how much more we could save (money and lives) without the middle man racking up the premiums and denying the coverage to less profitable people for personal profit.

so instead of insurance limiting, the gov't will pull out the ol' cost efficiency chart and decide if you are worth treating.
Kind of like the movie armeggedon where COL Sharp pulls out the Official US Air Force drilling chart.