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This must have been another Finn_jarber posting here
Must have been someone else..
What banks were owned by the US Government under Bush.. EVER? Everytime you post you claim that you know the difference between a loan, and ownership and then you go and respond with proof that you dont.
Who owns AIG? The government, thanks to Bush.
Who owns Fannie May? The government, thanks to Bush
Who owns Freddie Mac? The government, thanks to Bush
Paulson & Bush invested, yes bought stock, in 9 large banks at Wall Street for $125 billion dollars using tax payer money, while the going rate would have amounted to $65 billion.
And there is a whole slew of banks which were NATIONALIZED by Bush.
Wake up man!! Yes, there are some who just received money as gifts and some who took loans from Bush, but many were nationalized.
Like I said, do your homework before you come here lying about what other posters have and have not said.
Not owned by the government, the government loaned them money..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Who owns Fannie May? The government, thanks to Bush
Investors, stock symbol FNM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Who owns Freddie Mac? The government, thanks to Bush
Investors, stock symbol FRE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Paulson & Bush invested, yes bought stock, in 9 large banks at Wall Street for $125 billion dollars using tax payer money, while the going rate would have amounted to $65 billion.
Name ONE that the taxpayers owned stock in when Bush left, find me ONE story to confirm what you said. Should be a rather simple request.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
And there is a whole slew of banks which were NATIONALIZED by Bush.
And my previous thread asked you to name ONE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Wake up man!! Yes, there are some who just received money as gifts and some who took loans from Bush, but many were nationalized.
Like I said, do your homework before you come here lying about what other posters have and have not said.
You accuse me of lying about what you said, right after you say what I said you said AGAIN..
Funny that everyone in the world knows whats going on through these meetings, hell, they get discussed here constantly, but you claim to not know.
First the topic is dealerships, and the administration ALONE is organizing the closing of these dealerships. If you've been watching the news as you claim, you'd know this.
Dealerships have not received your tax dollars
And the minute they "BOUGHT" into the company, they become responsible for its actions. Thats what buying out a company means.
The fact that they were having financial hardship does not excuse the failures since the buyout has taken place. NO one buys out a company without taking a complete look at the books. If Obama bought without looking at this books, this just goes to show his incompetence, if he did see the books, than this goes to show that he is not to be given a free pass because he knew what he was getting into.
In one faction you want to criticize people for wearing a rolex (if thats even true) because they are to blame because they are in control, and then the very next sentence you want to claim that Obama, who is in control, holds no fault.
You cant have it both ways without looking like a hypocrite
Whew...You know you would make a GREAT politician. Both the Republicans and Democrats would welcome you with open arms. You forgot to include my original response to your assertion that Obama's election was the reason for GM stock going down. Stop twisting and spinning. My response had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with what your trying to spin now.
If the original topic was on the dealerships closing down, why then blame Obama for GM stock prices going down and causing the investors to bail. keep up with your own spin and incorrect statements before accusing someone of pleading IGNORANCE.
Whew...You know you would make a GREAT politician. Both the Republicans and Democrats would welcome you with open arms. You forgot to include my original response to your assertion that Obama's election was the reason for GM stock going down. Stop twisting and spinning. My response had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with what your trying to spin now.
If the original topic was on the dealerships closing down, why then blame Obama for GM stock prices going down and causing the investors to bail. keep up with your own spin and incorrect statements before accusing someone of pleading IGNORANCE.
Yeah, you will make a GREAT POLITICIAN.
I never claimed that it was due to Obamas "election" I claimed that it was due to actions taken by Obama.. The actions and threat of actions is why people are paying 8% insurance rates of GM stock while people are paying .5% insurance rates on Ford stock. Its the FEAR that dictates the market, and who can deny that Obama has taken drastic steps to cut the value of GM and Chrysler.. This whole thread is about that very action..
I thought the Billions of dollars Obama dished out to these companies was supposed to prevent all this.
I'm sorry, your statement makes no sense, unless your only point is to bash Obama. The money was to give the auto manufacturers time to WORK OUT A PLAN TO GET LEAN AND MEAN. Part of reducing their costs means cutting some DEALERS and some BRANDS. This cut just had to do with thinning the herd on the dealers. When Pontiac, Saab, Hummer and Buick go away there will be more dealers whacked. Although some of them may become "Chevy/Cadillac" dealers to replace some on today's list.
Dealerships are trying to sell cars but in an economy like this,they're not moving so why would they need all of them with half the sales?That's why they're doing this!
People keep forgetting that the bail outs began during the last administration and the auto manufacturers have been in trouble for a very long time! Major corporations don't go under in less than 4 months! As others just wrote, closing dealerships is to cut costs. Do the people who dislike Obama have amnesia? I guess so.
GM and Chrysler should go bust - the sooner - the better.
Applying cold hard physical facts, based on the Law of Physics, we know the hierarchy of energy consumption (efficiency) for transportation systems:
1. Water
2. Rail (steel wheel on steel rail)
3. Rubber tire on Asphalt
4. Air Transport
We may not know that GM (http://saveourwetlands.org/streetcar.htm - broken link) and other petroleum interests deliberately killed off the urban rail system to boost sagging sales, in the 1920s. Their spin doctors have effectively covered their tracks - almost.
So - disregarding the predatory and destructive schemes of the past, we should not abandon Big Auto because of its evil past, but that it makes no SENSE to embrace a transportation system that is so wasteful of fuel, surface area, resources, and one's lifespan working in support of it.
Petroleum's age is nearing the end. Any transportation system dependent upon it will incrementally increase in price, and decrease in availability.
What's left?
Water transportation, where practical / possible.
Electrified rail, where practical / possible: urban streetcars, interurban, heavy rail, subway, funicular, cogwheel - whatever. And the overhead power distribution grid may offer the secondary benefit of power to other vehicles, such as hybrids and electric buses, trucks and automobiles.
I hate to break it to you, investors are interested in the percentages made or lost, not actual dollar amounts.
Obama inherited an accounts receivable against GM and Chrysler, he turned that accounts receivable into a national catastrophy by trying to take over industries that he has no knowledge how to run and had not right to take over.. Ignoring that fact is whats bullsh.t.. Ignoring that the stock market rose 372% under a Republican Congress and then ignoring the 40+% drop under a Democratic one is whats bullsh.t..
And yet as you seem to always do - you started this whole back-and-forth we're on, not with a comment about Congress, but with an implied claim that somehow it was OBAMA that was to blame. Remember this back in past #15?:
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
You forgot the tens of billions flushed down the toilet in lost investors equity in GM alone since obama has been elected.
Once again, trying to lay the blame on Obama for something he INHERITED - while ignoring all the damage done by GW - then when THAT'S pointed out, suddenly shifting the focus to Congress. You make the point that Obama's actions have led to GM's loss of stock value - so tell me: What EXACTLY did Obama do After he was elected but before he was President that cause so much problem for GM (and how was that Obama's doing as opposed to GW's). And don't go on about what he has done since he's been PRESIDENT. I want to know what it is he did while President-elect. After all, you SPECIFICALLY mention in post #15 how much GM stock has gone down since Obama was ELECTED - not once he was actually PRESIDENT.
So tell me, what was it exactly that Obama did in that time that caused so much damage - and how is that not GW's responsibility? After all, GW was President then - NOT Obama.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
Hey, you can partake in bullsh.t.. I choose to post facts and as an investor, I live off of percentages.. Its the ONLY thing that matters when determining ROI on investments.
p.s. GM is now starting to be called a penny stock by investors, estimates estimate a $.02 value due to a proposed change by Obama to transfer equity into ownership role and then do a 100/1 reverse stock split. Lets talk about "value" on the proposed value of the stock due to the current plans taking place..
OK, you want to talk pure percentages -
Over the last 10 years GM has been reduced by roughly 98%
Of that 98%, 90% of it happened under GW.
THAT'S a percentage!
You mention percentage and say it's the ONLY thing that matters. That's BS. The fact is, NOBODY pulls percentages out of the market. You can't spend percentages to buy groceries, or to pay your rent, or to put gas in your car, or to fund your retirement. You use MONEY to do that - REAL MONEY - NOT PERCENTAGES - and the fact is, in terms of REAL MONEY, GM had been reduced to nearly nothing ALREADY by the time Obama came into office (or even was elected). When your stock has been reduced to nearly nothing it's pretty easy to make or lose huge PERCENTAGES on relatively minor changes in price. So what?
That's all well and good for the day traders who've just gotten into GM - but there are 10 of millions of Americans with money invested LONG TERM in their 401K's - and for those people - they've lost a ton of money on GM. For every $53,000 they had invested in GM they had $3,500 left when Obama came into office. If it ends up that GM's price somehow goes to $7/share they will have made an ROI of 100% compared to what they had when Obama came in. Ask them how excited they'd be to have made that 100%. Ask them how much better it makes them feel that their $53,000 has surged to a WHOLE $7,000.
The fact is - their percentages stink!
The truth of the matter is, viewing it as PURE PERCENTAGE is bullsh*t - because the numbers can be easily manipulated depending on where you set your starting and stopping points.
In the final analysis it's the REAL DOLLARS that actually matter. It's the REAL DOLLARS that people will depend upon for their retirements. It's the REAL DOLLARS that they will spend or save - NOT percentages.
Percentages are a measure of how something has done over a specific period of time - nothing more. REAL DOLLARS are what people exist on.
And in terms of REAL DOLLARS GW has been a disaster - both in regards to GM and the market as a whole.
Ken
Last edited by LordBalfor; 05-16-2009 at 05:42 AM..
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You accuse me of lying about what you said, right after you say what I said you said AGAIN..
