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I should have explicitly said - a non-religious argument.
But the religeous argument is all you'll get from most people.
The non-religeous side will focus on it being disgusting and an embarrassment to society. Something most people do not want to teach their kids about. My children are nearly 9 years old and I certainly don't want to have a discussion with them about how some men like to have anal sex with other men. It's not natural for them to understand this at such a young age and is quite literally the reason why most non-religeous people are against it.
For me personally, my purpose in arguing against it is purely based on my belief that homosexuality goes against the word of God.
Which makes perfect sense when it comes to running your own life. But that does not give you leave to control the life of anyone else.
And, as I said in that other thread, the way you are going about 'spreading the word' does more to drive people away from God than almost anything I have ever read. In the 11 years I've been on the internet, I've told a few others what I'm about to tell you; If I had run into YOU before I was baptized as a Christian and, if your preachy attitude was all I had ever heard from Christians, I likely would never have been baptized! I thank God every day that my first experiences with Christians were not with YOU.
Which makes perfect sense when it comes to running your own life. But that does not give you leave to control the life of anyone else.
And, as I said in that other thread, the way you are going about 'spreading the word' does more to drive people away from God than almost anything I have ever read. In the 11 years I've been on the internet, I've told a few others what I'm about to tell you; If I had run into YOU before I was baptized as a Christian and, if your preachy attitude was all I had ever heard from Christians, I likely would never have been baptized! I thank God every day that my first experiences with Christians were not with YOU.
The only reason to get baptized is because you feel the power of God within you and because you believe it's the right thing to do. If one person could have changed your mind then your beliefs do you not run very deep. Sounds like you'd rather ignore the darker parts of the Bible and just focus on the positive stuff. Well, I'm sorry to say, but there are plenty examples of God's punishments of people that are actually very brutal.....if you're going to accept God then you have to accept everything about it and not just the 'nice' parts.
Again, yes, I do have the right to decide how to run other people's lives as that's the basis of living in a democracy. Majority rules as long as what they are voting on falls within certain boundaries established by the higher courts. For now, I have the CA Supreme Court on my side so that's a pretty good start.
Again, we're only talking about one subject here, homosexuality. Sounds to me like you are a very weak minded person who is easily influenced by others. That's too bad because my beliefs are so solid that I'm willing to describe myself as a bigot on the subject....which is basically an unwavering belief in something and the unwillingness to have my opinion changed by others. That's what Faith is all about. The weakmindedness probably comes from your departure from God and your willingness to preach against Him so you'll bringing all of this on yourself.
I have come out and openly said I really have no problem with same sex unions. My reasons have been clearly laid out on other threads but I will display them one more time for your viewing pleasure. Legal marriage is nothing but a contract with the state of your residence between you, your partner, and the state. The contract gives the couple certain rights not given to "dating" couples. Issues such as next of kin as well as tax options are all tied into the marriage contract. Religious marriage is between you, your partner, and GOD. I have never read in any holy book(I have read the Bible and most of the Quran) that states you must have a contract with the state for your marriage to be real. So why would anyone have a problem with people wanting to simply contract with the government? Seems only fair for everyone to have the same options when dealing with anything state related because there is supposed to be a separation of church and state so legal marriage really has absolutely nothing to do with your religious marital vows or the laws of your holy book. It's just a contract people.
But I would like to say one other thing. There were several users on the board who simply said they "strongly disapprove" And for some reason these are the ones everyone wants to jump on. Why is that? Are they not allowed to have their own opinion. Does everyone not "pro same sex marriage" need to be attacked and converted. Why not just let them have their opinion and accept that everyone isn't going to lean your way. You will never win everyone over to your way of thinking, just as str8 people will never be able to convince you otherwise when talking about your sexuality. Just let them have the same right to their opinions and beliefs as you wish to have without constantly attacking the ones who oppose you. This also goes for those who constantly attack gay people. You are not going to change who they are, so just make your views known and leave it at that. Personal attacks on others will never help your cause. It will only set you and your opposites further at odds.
The only reason to get baptized is because you feel the power of God within you and because you believe it's the right thing to do. If one person could have changed your mind then your beliefs do you not run very deep. Sounds like you'd rather ignore the darker parts of the Bible and just focus on the positive stuff. Well, I'm sorry to say, but there are plenty examples of God's punishments of people that are actually very brutal.....if you're going to accept God then you have to accept everything about it and not just the 'nice' parts.
'Scuse me, but I was 12 when I was baptized. I was baptized because I felt that to be the way to accept Christ Jesus into my heart. As I said, if the only discussion of the Bible I'd ever heard at that time had been the nonsense you are throwing around, I likely wouldn't have WANTED Him in my heart, much less in my life!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pba
Again, yes, I do have the right to decide how to run other people's lives as that's the basis of living in a democracy. Majority rules as long as what they are voting on falls within certain boundaries established by the higher courts. For now, I have the CA Supreme Court on my side so that's a pretty good start.
Your understanding of the way this country is run is as lacking as your understanding of the teachings of Christ Jesus. The boundaries are established by the Constitution, as interpreted by ONE court - the Supreme Court of the United States. And guess what? The SCOTUS can - and at times has - overrule the state supreme courts.
Again, we're only talking about one subject here, homosexuality. Sounds to me like you are a very weak minded person who is easily influenced by others. That's too bad because my beliefs are so solid that I'm willing to describe myself as a bigot on the subject....which is basically an unwavering belief in something and the unwillingness to have my opinion changed by others. That's what Faith is all about. The weakmindedness probably comes from your departure from God and your willingness to preach against Him so you'll bringing all of this on yourself.[/quote]
Show me where I have EVER 'preached against God'. The only thing I'm doing here is disagreeing with your interpretation of a few out of context Bible verses. Take your hateful judgments elsewhere; I'm no longer interested in arguing with you.
I have come out and openly said I really have no problem with same sex unions. My reasons have been clearly laid out on other threads but I will display them one more time for your viewing pleasure. Legal marriage is nothing but a contract with the state of your residence between you, your partner, and the state. The contract gives the couple certain rights not given to "dating" couples. Issues such as next of kin as well as tax options are all tied into the marriage contract. Religious marriage is between you, your partner, and GOD. I have never read in any holy book(I have read the Bible and most of the Quran) that states you must have a contract with the state for your marriage to be real. So why would anyone have a problem with people wanting to simply contract with the government? Seems only fair for everyone to have the same options when dealing with anything state related because there is supposed to be a separation of church and state so legal marriage really has absolutely nothing to do with your religious marital vows or the laws of your holy book. It's just a contract people.
But I would like to say one other thing. There were several users on the board who simply said they "strongly disapprove" And for some reason these are the ones everyone wants to jump on. Why is that? Are they not allowed to have their own opinion. Does everyone not "pro same sex marriage" need to be attacked and converted. Why not just let them have their opinion and accept that everyone isn't going to lean your way. You will never win everyone over to your way of thinking, just as str8 people will never be able to convince you otherwise when talking about your sexuality. Just let them have the same right to their opinions and beliefs as you wish to have without constantly attacking the ones who oppose you. This also goes for those who constantly attack gay people. You are not going to change who they are, so just make your views known and leave it at that. Personal attacks on others will never help your cause. It will only set you and your opposites further at odds.
The main reason I 'jump on' the 'disapprovers' I even bother with is that I know that there are many who read such forums as this and never bother to post. Some of those may be people who have not yet formed an opinion. I will not allow the ridiculous statements made by the other side to be the ONLY statements those fence sitters see. Thus, I will not allow such ridiculous claims to go unchallenged.
But I would like to say one other thing. There were several users on the board who simply said they "strongly disapprove" And for some reason these are the ones everyone wants to jump on.
I don't really see it this way. The ones that people are jumping on are posting some fairly inflammatory statements and not simply saying that they strongly disapprove.
I don't really see it this way. The ones that people are jumping on are posting some fairly inflammatory statements and not simply saying that they strongly disapprove.
I have come out and openly said I really have no problem with same sex unions. My reasons have been clearly laid out on other threads but I will display them one more time for your viewing pleasure. Legal marriage is nothing but a contract with the state of your residence between you, your partner, and the state. The contract gives the couple certain rights not given to "dating" couples. Issues such as next of kin as well as tax options are all tied into the marriage contract. Religious marriage is between you, your partner, and GOD. I have never read in any holy book(I have read the Bible and most of the Quran) that states you must have a contract with the state for your marriage to be real. So why would anyone have a problem with people wanting to simply contract with the government? Seems only fair for everyone to have the same options when dealing with anything state related because there is supposed to be a separation of church and state so legal marriage really has absolutely nothing to do with your religious marital vows or the laws of your holy book. It's just a contract people.
But I would like to say one other thing. There were several users on the board who simply said they "strongly disapprove" And for some reason these are the ones everyone wants to jump on. Why is that? Are they not allowed to have their own opinion. Does everyone not "pro same sex marriage" need to be attacked and converted. Why not just let them have their opinion and accept that everyone isn't going to lean your way. You will never win everyone over to your way of thinking, just as str8 people will never be able to convince you otherwise when talking about your sexuality. Just let them have the same right to their opinions and beliefs as you wish to have without constantly attacking the ones who oppose you. This also goes for those who constantly attack gay people. You are not going to change who they are, so just make your views known and leave it at that. Personal attacks on others will never help your cause. It will only set you and your opposites further at odds.
Don't start with the separation of church and state argument because the only thing the Constitutinon says about that is that people have the right to choose whichever relieon that they want. Really, the whole 'separation of church and state' is something of an urban legend that people have come to believe but it doesn't really exist. Do your own research and you'll see.
Now I agree with you about the civil union piece. Take it out of the Church and remove all references to God and then I wouldn't care about the whole subject. I'd continue to tell people that homosexuality goes against the Bible but you would find far less disagreement on civil unions from me and people like me.
I liked your last paragraph also. Nicely said.
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You got that right. 
