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Old 08-15-2009, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,822,592 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Houston3 View Post
Democrats take money from the insurance industry also.. it was in the news just a couple of days ago...
And yet they are the ones ready to challenge the big business (at least most of them are). How about the republicans? Do you have a count on them too? Let us see it.
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:17 AM
 
8,652 posts, read 17,243,102 times
Reputation: 4622
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
And yet they are the ones ready to challenge the big business (at least most of them are). How about the republicans? Do you have a count on them too? Let us see it.
A statement was made and
I'm just pointing out the facts... Do you have a problem with that.?
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
1,891 posts, read 3,449,751 times
Reputation: 1746
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
Incorrigible. And private businesses always flourish. And private businesses don't have these so-called death panels. Private businesses have your welfare in mind and profits are only secondary.

Yeah right!


Get your facts straight before you speak on it. Public option was never the only piece of the reform, but a part of it (the other being regulation of existing plan). If you disagree, provide a credible source.

Tort reform is yet another sham, designed to favor the elite at the expense of the populace. And how does it help? Give me a credible explanation, supported with numbers.
The Prez kept saying "public option", over and over again, until people started speaking up about everything else in this bill, then he and his started calling it "health care reform".

Tort reform would bring malpractice insurance costs down, overnight.


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Old 08-15-2009, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,392,645 times
Reputation: 8672
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardRoarke View Post
The Prez kept saying "public option", over and over again, until people started speaking up about everything else in this bill, then he and his started calling it "health care reform".

Tort reform would bring malpractice insurance costs down, overnight.


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The myth that “tort reform†is key to lowering health care cost is a zombie that won’t die. But we can look at real-world examples to see what happens to health care cost when courthouse doors are closed to ordinary folks.

In 2003, the state of Texas passed a constitutional amendment that restricts medical malpractice claims, capping noneconomic damages at $250,000. This was supposed to make medical insurance more affordable for Texans.

Guess again. Last year the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation found that Texas ranked third among the states in health insurance premium increases — 40 percent — from 2001 to 2005.

Physicians say that their malpractice premiums are indeed lower. But last year the Texas Academy of Family Physicians was hit with a 23 percent increase in the cost of health insurance for its employees. Not exactly a win/win.

Last month, a Dallas jury awarded $17.7 million to David Fitzgerald, 53. Mr. Fitzgerald had been hospitalized for ulcer surgery when he developed an infection. The infection was not properly treated, and eventually Mr. Fitzgerald had to undergo amputation to save his life. David Fitzgerald lost both legs and both arms because of a treatable infection contracted while he was in a hospital.

And the second travesty is that the $17.7 million — which he could surely use over the many remaining years of his life — was cut by more than half by Texas law. The award included $6.72 million in economic damages and $11 million for pain and suffering. But the $11 million immediately was reduced to $250,000. Because that’s all Texas law says he can have.

Did I mention that health care costs in Texas keep going up, anyway?

In the next post I plan to look at the results of other “tort reform†in Texas that protect corporations from having to pay damages for faulty products and dangerous workplaces — the sorts of cases that involve mesothelioma patients, dying because of exposure to asbestos.

Sources:

Clay Johnson, “Trial Lawyers Get a Break,†the Houston Chronicle, May 4, 2008
Maria M. Perotin, “Dallas amputee wins $17.7 million verdict; Texas law reduces it by more than half,†the Dallas-Fort Worth Star-Telegram, February 18, 2009
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:39 AM
 
1,653 posts, read 1,170,790 times
Reputation: 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardRoarke View Post
The Prez kept saying "public option", over and over again, until people started speaking up about everything else in this bill, then he and his started calling it "health care reform".

Tort reform would bring malpractice insurance costs down, overnight.


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38 states have passed tort reform, how much has the cost of health care dropped?
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:44 AM
 
20,187 posts, read 23,858,535 times
Reputation: 9283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Ok,

So people are against the healthcare reform proposal. The proposal thats been put forward, doesn't make Universal coverage, it doesn't put insurance companies out of business, and it would be paid for with higher taxes on those making 250,000 a year or more and by the savings over time.

So now what.

Healthcare costs are still to high in our country. We pay 33% more of our GDP than France does, and they have the highest ranked healthcare in the world, we are ranked 37th. We are paying more for less. Healthcare costs are projected to continue to rise, well beyond the rate of inflation. This will make it so businesses can no longer afford to pay for healthcare for their employees. Also, Insurance companies can continue to drop you for whatever reason they'd like.

All I hear Republicans doing is complaining about, "Give me my country back" Your country hasn't gone anywhere. What I'd like, is for BOTH parties to sit down, and hammer out a good bill, that saves us money, and covers everyone. I know this can be done. President Obama has asked for Republican input, yet, most of them are ignoring his calls for bipartisanship. Most are just spreading malicious lies, derailing an effort that is for a good reason.

I don't agree with the bill that the house passed a few weeks ago. It causes costs to rise beyond what they already are. But it was just a first step, it has to be debated, worked on, and then finally a final draft is passed on.

To give you an analogy. Barrack Obama is asking for a great american novel to be written. The Democrats in the house wrote an outline, but Republicans are saying it shouldn't be written at all. I know something needs to be done, but what?

Quit complaining, pull your shirt sleeves up, and lets hear some ideas.

MY IDEA,

Maybe you should contact your REPUBLICAN Senators and Representatives, and ask them to start working on a good bill, instead of only opposing a bad one.
There are some good policies in Congress's plan but there also a lot of bad ones... How would I create a health care plan?

1) For me, I would create a plan that would basically be a non-profit insurance carrier to compete with the private insurance companies... basically create a "unobligated" plan... what do I mean by "unobligated"? I mean a plan that is completely separated from the government that functions based on the premiums submitted to it by those who want to be insured... Congress's plan is VERY flawed, part of its funding is "taxed" on higher incomes but like everything else costs WILL go up over time and you cannot keep increasing higher income taxes forever... the EVENTUAL path for their plan WILL lead to middle class tax hikes, perhaps 8-12 years from now... It becomes an "obligated" plan where taxes is tied into the plan...

2) I would keep some of Congress's ideas, ban on preexisting conditions, ban on dropping coverage, ban on annual/lifetime caps... perhaps even indexing it to median wage growth minus 2 percent for premium hikes... I would also go further and mandate minimal percent coverage on health care... so that 90% of care is paid for by the insurance companies with deductibles limits dependent on household income... I would even ban insurance companies practice of denying benefit claims without good reason or suffer a 10000% penalty that is to be paid to the fund listed in #5... each denial of benefit will be reviewed by a subcommittee of physicians for each city...

3) I would definitely keep the "end-of-life care" provision because it saves a great deal of money and I know that it will mean that people will die earlier (perhaps days to weeks earlier)... but it is "cheaper" this route... unless those who opt to pay for it with out-of-pocket costs through liens on their estate...

4) My plan would also include Tort reform based on a panel of physicians and perhaps one "elected" official to judge the merits of the lawsuit and enact maximum caps for each lawsuit... This will be BEFORE any insurance company can settle with the plantiffs because oftentimes the insurance company will settle because its "cheaper"... if the panel decides the case has merits and given a maximum cap for the lawsuit, the insurance may settle ONLY if it pays 50% of the maximum cap... Drug companies, insurance companies, hospital interests, etc are BANNED from being part of the panel...

5) For those who are uninsured/underinsured/unemployed, the "unobligated" plan would take them automatically at reduced premiums perhaps (15% to 25% of normal premiums)... and it will be funded by a fund set up that receives revenues from EVERY single business... the tax rate would be dependent on the size of businesses or revenue they generate...

6) Everyone will be mandated to get coverage or pay a penalty of 200% of premiums x number of years of no coverage (they must provide evidence of coverage)... Businesses will be required to insure all those who work for them or pay for the fund in #5...

7) I would NOT interfere whether there is abortion coverage in the "unobligated" plan because it is NOT controlled or funded by the government...

8) I would reduce waste by penalizing physicians and hospitals 10000% of the costs of the test for tests that are duplicated without due cause and due cause MUST be stated on the requisition sheets if it is to be repeated... insurance companies must review "repeated" tests and if they find that the due cause is unacceptable then it will be sent to the committee panel for evaluation and fine...

9) I would invest money towards research to find optimum care for common illnesses and diseases... these create more of a burden than other rare diseases...

10) I would limit on how profitable insurance companies can keep part of the premium so that 90% of all premiums MUST be paid to health care services...

11) I would also ALLOW the importation of cheaper drugs found in other countries, of course, it will be deeply regulated to make sure "fake" drugs are not making its way over here.... Sorry Obama, its gotta be done...

12) For those who have prolonged unemployment (6 months or greater), premiums will be zero and costs must be picked up by the state for payment of premiums... it is in the best interest of the state to keep people employed and encourages businesses to locate their offices over there...

13) Medicaid and SCHIP will be eliminated and those enrolled in such programs are automatically enrolled into the "unobligated" plan...

14) Those with large families and meet certain income limits may receive subsidized plans if they qualify (for instance, the same requirements found in Medicaid/SCHIP)... for those with zero incomes, the premiums will be zero...

15) Illegal immigrants can join the plan if they report themselves to the INS and receive a temporary worker visa and identify their employer... their employer will be fined and banned from future hirings of illegal immigrants or face immediate closure... the fine will be 500% of ANNUAL premiums per illegal immigrant identified to be employed there... if the illegal immigrant fails to identify an employer then they are deported and will not be eligible for the plan...

16) Unemployment limit... lifetime limit of 5 years (just like welfare)... after which they will be responsible for at least SOME minimal premium payment to continue to be in the plan... exceptions are for those 18 years and younger or full-time enrollment in vocational, college, or technical school...

17) Mandatory annual check-ups at their primary care physician for all Americans... especially kids... if the parents or the person fails to do this, there will be a $1000 fine per year...

18) For the self-employed, the cheaper premiums at the "unobligated" plan should be more than affordable for them and their workers...

19) A centralized billing location in which it is funded by all private insurance companies in which all physician billing can go to, to reduce paperwork and time... insurance companies will have to pay according to a simple equation... (how many people the insurance company covers/total number of insured people) x cost to run the centralized billing...

There is probably more, but that's what I have so far off the top of my head... nobody taxes will go up, private insurance will have to compete with an "unobligated" plan, waste is reduced, less expenditure by the state for health care coverage, no part of the GDP will be used to fund a failing program, everyone gets decent coverage, and the patient-physician relationship is even stronger as physicians don't have to fight insurance companies for needed medical services...
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Old 08-15-2009, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,887 posts, read 17,195,472 times
Reputation: 3706
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
If there are concerns like this, then opponents ought to provide solutions out in public, and work to address what might be (perceived or not) issues. Isn't that how bipartisanship is supposed to work?
Please, you know that's not how it works in Congress, circa 2009. Republican amendments and substitute bills are not allowed to the floor and defeated. Republicans are not being included because they aren't needed, and because the leadership wants the bill they have proposed, and frankly they don't want to deal. Hell, Howard Dean has threatened Blue Dog and other Democrats to get in line or face primary challenges. The can't even keep their own folks in line and on board.
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Old 08-15-2009, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,392,645 times
Reputation: 8672
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
Please, you know that's not how it works in Congress, circa 2009. Republican amendments and substitute bills are not allowed to the floor and defeated. Republicans are not being included because they aren't needed, and because the leadership wants the bill they have proposed, and frankly they don't want to deal. Hell, Howard Dean has threatened Blue Dog and other Democrats to get in line or face primary challenges. The can't even keep their own folks in line and on board.
I haven't seen or heard of a lot of Republican bills lately. If you hear of a good one, post it. I'll be happy to write my representatives and tell them to support it.

Healthcare reform is a good idea. The bill passed in the house isn't perfect, it needs work done. Republicans, instead of helping, decided to play politics, and fight against anything. Its a problem, the problem needs to be solved. Instead of being partisan, they need to be Americans, and work to get the problem fixed.
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Old 08-15-2009, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,266,002 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Maybe you should contact your REPUBLICAN Senators and Representatives, and ask them to start working on a good bill, instead of only opposing a bad one.

AH - the GOP have introduced a "good" bill. The Democratic leadership however have refused to let it go to committee for a hearing.

So, why don't YOU contact the Democrats and tell them to let the GOP bill get a fair hearing??
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Old 08-15-2009, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,029 posts, read 14,209,414 times
Reputation: 16747
There are those who believe health care should be a right. That statement is evidence of mass insanity or cognitive dissonance.

Let me rephrase it so it makes perfect sense.
1. HEALTH CARE (someone's labor) is a RIGHT (protected by Constitution).
2. RECEIVING HEALTH CARE (someone's labor) is a RIGHT (protected by Constitution).
3. COMPELLING someone else to do or pay for my health care is a RIGHT. (uh - no, that is involuntary servitude)
4. Giving HEALTH CARE is a RIGHT (nope - unlicensed practice of medicine is a crime).
So you see that what the government says is "health care reform" is not.

If you truly want universal health care, you need to decriminalize the giving of care, decriminalize the purchase of medicine and medical machinery, expand medical training and education, and eliminate tort liability by "Satisfaction guaranteed or your money back."

But that requires a reduction in power, which the government is loathe to do.
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