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You are partially right. Pardon the pun. Wealthy Americans and special interest groups, AMA, PHarms, Health Care Professional organizations and PACS, insurance companies. I wonder how it is going to feel for those pawns ten years from now when the realize that they were duped by the special interests groups. Some are so stupid they will never understand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertjohnson
Is this 'source' compiled by the same folks that concocted
the global warming or whatever it's called this week list of
smart guys that are beyond question? Are we at the tipping
point here too?
eyes gots ta no
The AMA has been advocating universal health care since the 1940's. Somehow this fact conveniently gets overlooked; but it is not hard to do so since those political pundits are hedging that no one will bother to actually do some research into this stuff. Lo and behold, they are right. Pun intended. Idiocracy, here we come.
The people who protest against the government running health care are those who realize that the problems with the current system could be addressed very nicely without resorting to a government run single payer system. Most people know there are problems with the current system. Most people agree on what those problems are. Obama knows this and that's why he uses these to push his government plan.
Why are there those who so urgently and vehemently want a government plan rather than put forth any proposals to address the problems they say they are trying to solve without such a government plan? It's simple. It's because solving these problems is not the reason they so badly want a government plan.
They want a government plan in order for the government to be able to exercise more power over the economy and to allow the government more power over the people. It's a socialist idea, my friend, and may even have some merit. The problem is that this country was founded on the principles of the free market system, limited government and individual responsibilty. Most of the country does not want to move any closer to socialism than we already have.
Most of the people who are for more socialism are those who find that they cannot compete in a capitalistic free market system. Most of those folks are democrats. This country already rations health care the same way they ration lobster and filet mignon for dinner. These things cost money and the good things costs even more money. There are many people who cannot afford to eat lobster and filet mignon for dinner or purchase health insurance. These are the less productive members of society who are less intelligent and less able to achieve. So, in a way, we already ration health care based on the value of a human life.
The AMA has been advocating universal health care since the 1940's. Somehow this fact conveniently gets overlooked; but it is not hard to do so since those political pundits are hedging that no one will bother to actually do some research into this stuff. Lo and behold, they are right. Pun intended. Idiocracy, here we come.
That is the funniest thing that I have heard to date. Getting your information about health care reform from the AMA is like getting advice on how to get to heaven from the Devil.
"AMA has fought almost every major effort at health care reform of the past 70 years. The group's reputation on this matter is so notorious that historians pinpoint it with creating the ominous sounding phrase "socialized medicine" in the early decades of the 1900s. "
I guess with significant amount of spin you could say the AMA is for Universal coverage. What they are for, if you read your own article, which you probably did not, is that they are for every one universally having "PRIVATE INSURANCE". Of course they do, they gouge the insurance companies and then the insurance companies gouge us.
This is not the same as a public option or insurance paid for by and through the government, which they oppose just as the opposed medicaid, and medicare. They are certainly against a single payer system such as Great Britain where Doctors work for the government. The AMA wants everyone to have private insurance. They would love for the government to subsidise it, but not to limit payments like medicaid and medicare.
If the AMA is supporting the bill, then you can be assured that we are getting screwed and costs will continue to rise.
You did the research but apparently you are unable to understand what you read or did not read it.. Do a little more research and actually read what you find. I have put you on the path to enlightment. Go forward. Best of luck to you.
And I resent the fact that the left is trying to demonize those that are using common sense and are against this stupid idea. I resent the fact that you all say we're for special interest groups, when in fact we're just against the world's largest special interest group (the US government)
This is a STUPID idea, and a LOT of Americans are against this. We don't give a damn about pharma. We don't give a damn about insurance company profits. We only give a damn about the quality of our health care and the fact that we don't want our health decisions being made by bureaucrats.
Whether you like it or not, many, many, many Americans are using their heads and voting against this crap. We're voicing our displeasure for this plan and dammit we're allowed to do that. It's sad and pathetic that the left is trying to silence the voice of the American people by trying to demonize them and make up lies about our reasoning for our feelings.
Pathetic.
Everyone's idea of "common sense" is a little bit different. That's why I personally dislike the phrase. That said, when the conservatives go parrotting Rush, Sean, et al, when you hear the same thing over and over here on CD after the above have said it on one of their shows, it doesn't seem like those posting same are exactly "thinking for themselves". This "dealth panel" thing is a good case in point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA
I think a lot of us, if not the majority of folks in this country, are getting tired of hearing (and being insulted) that we can't think for ourselves, that we lack critical thinking skills.
I think a lot of the lies come from the health care supporters, who have failed to make an adequate case for the proposals. Stuff like preventive care have clearly been identified by CBO as an attribute that increases overall health care cost, not save money. Yet, the supporters keep mindlessly chanting the mantra that nobody but the rich will absorb more cost.
Many of us don't believe this at all, and think the supporters haven't thought out their proposal, and the business case in support of the proposal. Frankly, from my point of view this is the "nose of the camel" towards further government nanny state stuff, such as proposing "junk food tax" and funding/encouraging abortions for fetuses that are identified as significantly defective during pregnancy screening.
No thanks.
(BTW - these are my own thoughts)
Not entirely true. One preventive intervention that has long been shown to save money is immunizations. Yet many on the RW are opposed to immunizations as some sort of "communist plot". I have worked in immunizations for years, and just when I think I've heard it all, I hear something even crazier.
Some preventive measures are cost-effective for the individual patient, but not for the "herd". For example, a mammogram may find a breast cancer when it is in its earliest stages, thus cost the pt. less in treatment (and may save her life). However, you may have to do a lot of mammograms to find one case of breast cancer. Please do not assume I'm opposed to mammograms; I'm not. In fact, I'm a big advocate of them. I'm just trying to give an example. Our system right now is very individualistic, and I'd like to see it stay that way.
Everyone's idea of "common sense" is a little bit different. That's why I personally dislike the phrase. That said, when the conservatives go parrotting Rush, Sean, et al, when you hear the same thing over and over here on CD after the above have said it on one of their shows, it doesn't seem like those posting same are exactly "thinking for themselves". This "dealth panel" thing is a good case in point.
And this is the problem with the left wing response. Anytime someone that disagrees with this garbage speaks up, the automatic response is "well, they're just parroting rush or hannity." It's the easy way out of an argument.
Never mind the fact that I don't listen to either of them. Personally, while I agree with a lot that they say, I also think they too blindly supported Bush on a lot of his policies.
This is just a cop out answer for a left winger that can't stand when someone disagrees and thinks for themselves.
Everyday more information comes out,
this idea of protest against the government running health care is all part of the usual game.
The wealthy and powerful use the less informed as pawns!
And this is the problem with the left wing response. Anytime someone that disagrees with this garbage speaks up, the automatic response is "well, they're just parroting rush or hannity." It's the easy way out of an argument.
Never mind the fact that I don't listen to either of them. Personally, while I agree with a lot that they say, I also think they too blindly supported Bush on a lot of his policies.
This is just a cop out answer for a left winger that can't stand when someone disagrees and thinks for themselves.
This health care reform bill is garbage. Period.
If you had read my post carefully, you would have seen that I did not say the above. I will put it a little differently. When I hear the exact same talking points over and over, I look into who is behind them. I'm talking about all of a sudden a rash of posts about the Chinese Olympics last week (I think it was last week), that kind of thing. It's a dead giveaway.
And this is the problem with the left wing response. Anytime someone that disagrees with this garbage speaks up, the automatic response is "well, they're just parroting rush or hannity." It's the easy way out of an argument.
Never mind the fact that I don't listen to either of them. Personally, while I agree with a lot that they say, I also think they too blindly supported Bush on a lot of his policies.
If you don't listen to either one of them how do you know what they say? Vulcan mind meld?
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