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And how things have changed! Today, even if one who is not a Christian were to go around quoting the Bible and inscribing verses on government monuments, he or she would be soundly criticized, removed from the scene, and sued by the ACLU or charged with a crime, or both. Let a teacher, even though non Christian, reference a Bible verse or prayer in school and see what happens. I don't see that any of our Founding Fathers were hung for failing to keep a great distance between church and state. Heck, try to put up a Christmas tree, much less a nativity scene on public property and see what happens. Kids get suspended for bringing a Bible to school for their own silent reading periods. Nobody asks whether they're Deists or not. Perhaps if they were Deists, it would be allowed. No, come to think of it, it would not be allowed today because they might mention the word "God," which the Founding Fathers did repeatedly but which is increasingly more often prohibited in the public square.
I guess the left is willing to cut the Founding Fathers some slack as long as they were "not Christians in the manner in which the religious right portrays them."
Christmas trees do get put up on public property. Every Christmas. And children who get in trouble for bringing a Bible to read during their free time are almost always vindicated, because they are free to read the Bible on their own time. I would challenge any school that prohibits children from reading the Bible during their free periods. Schools can prohibit some reading material, pornography for example, but religious material is in fact protected.
Remember the bells that used to be placed graveside. It was a Victorian practice because people feared being interred while still alive. It wasn't just a fear during Victorian times. It was a fear that is frequently referenced throughout history.
"in less than three days after I am dead." What the heck does Washington have to do with a Victorian???
Washington was concerned he may be trapped in the vault after his resurrection. That explains not wanting his body placed in the vault before 3 days after his death.
He wanted this to be understood. There is no other explanation. Victorian is laughable. When was Victoria a Queen of the British Empire.
Last edited by DraggingCanoe; 05-25-2010 at 03:25 PM..
And how things have changed! Today, even if one who is not a Christian were to go around quoting the Bible and inscribing verses on government monuments, he or she would be soundly criticized, removed from the scene, and sued by the ACLU or charged with a crime, or both. Let a teacher, even though non Christian, reference a Bible verse or prayer in school and see what happens. I don't see that any of our Founding Fathers were hung for failing to keep a great distance between church and state. Heck, try to put up a Christmas tree, much less a nativity scene on public property and see what happens. Kids get suspended for bringing a Bible to school for their own silent reading periods. Nobody asks whether they're Deists or not. Perhaps if they were Deists, it would be allowed. No, come to think of it, it would not be allowed today because they might mention the word "God," which the Founding Fathers did repeatedly but which is increasingly more often prohibited in the public square.
I guess the left is willing to cut the Founding Fathers some slack as long as they were "not Christians in the manner in which the religious right portrays them."
Absolute nonsense. The ACLU (unlike the ADF or ACLJ) fights to uphold BOTH religion clauses of the First Amendment.
This is typical false fundamentalist propaganda, and I am SO getting tired of it. Explain the existence of these cases, if you can:
"increasingly prohibited in the public square" - funny, because the ACLU routinely fights for the rights of the religious to express themselves in the public square.
"in less than three days after I am dead." What the heck does Washington have to do with a Victorian???
Washington was concerned he may be trapped in the vault after his resurrection. That explains not wanting his body placed in the vault before 3 days after his death.
He wanted this to be understood. There is no other explanation.
As I told SB, there are sundry explanations. Washington didn't provide an explanation for this final request. He owned his own beliefs, he didn't share them. Can you not let him own them after death? Do you have to force your beliefs upon him after his death? I don't believe that he thought he was going to be resurrected, that his physical body would rise from the dead. And I didn't say that Washington had anything to do with "a Victorian". In modern times, we have permitted science to define death for us, more or less clearly. But historically, it was a prevalent fear to be buried alive. The practice of placing bells graveside was a response to that fear. Asking that you not be interred for a few days after people thought you had passed would be another response to that fear.
How is that the religious right portrays them? I haven't heard about this. As far as a legal sense goes, no, it doesn't matter, but our country was definitely founded on Judeo Christian philosophies which is why this thread was started to begin with.
As I told SB, there are sundry explanations. Washington didn't provide an explanation for this final request. He owned his own beliefs, he didn't share them. Can you not let him own them after death? Do you have to force your beliefs upon him after his death? I don't believe that he thought he was going to be resurrected, that his physical body would rise from the dead. And I didn't say that Washington had anything to do with "a Victorian". In modern times, we have permitted science to define death for us, more or less clearly. But historically, it was a prevalent fear to be buried alive. The practice of placing bells graveside was a response to that fear. Asking that you not be interred for a few days after people thought you had passed would be another response to that fear.
Washington said. "After I am dead." "Do not place me in the vault for 3 days." "Do you understand"
No explanation was needed. Christ rose after 3 days. This has nothing to do with Victorian bells in the mid 19th century.
Washington was and is a Christian. He believed in Christ and the Resurrection. On his deathbed he demanded his dead body not be placed in the vault for 3 days.
Washington said. "After I am dead." "Do not place me in the vault for 3 days." "Do you understand"
No explanation was needed. Christ rose after 3 days. This has nothing to do with Victorian bells in the mid 19th century.
Washington was and is a Christian. He believed in Christ and the Resurrection. On his deathbed he demanded his dead body not be placed in the vault for 3 days.
Washington said. "After I am dead." "Do not place me in the vault for 3 days." "Do you understand"
No explanation was needed. Christ rose after 3 days. This has nothing to do with Victorian bells in the mid 19th century.
Washington was and is a Christian. He believed in Christ and the Resurrection. On his deathbed he demanded his dead body not be placed in the vault for 3 days.
Stop beating a dead horse.
I am sure that he, being one of the original Founding Fathers, felt it was important to ram his personal beliefs down other peoples' throats.
So sure. After all, that's what the US was FOUNDED ON, right? Not freedom from monarchs or state religions! Heaven's no! They modeled this country after 18th century England! How could I have missed it!!?
Washington said. "After I am dead." "Do not place me in the vault for 3 days." "Do you understand"
No explanation was needed. Christ rose after 3 days. This has nothing to do with Victorian bells in the mid 19th century.
Washington was and is a Christian. He believed in Christ and the Resurrection. On his deathbed he demanded his dead body not be placed in the vault for 3 days.
Stop beating a dead horse.
How come he nominated a sworn universalist and hell denier as the chaplain of his army?
I think the general idea among Deists (and I may be one, depending on how you define the term, except for weekends, when I am a Taoist) is that prayer is pointless in terms of "asking" for things.
The idea is God either isn't listening or doesn't care, or doesn't care in "that way."
But prayer for purposes other than asking for Divine Intervention...sure, why not? A prayer acknowledging the beauty and wonder of the Universe? Sure.
Was he on the battlefield?
Had he just come from one?
Was he on his way to one?
Do you really think he was acknowledging beauty and wonder?
Much more likely that he was asking for help.
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Perhaps if they were Deists, it would be allowed. No, come to think of it, it would not be allowed today because they might mention the word "God," which the Founding Fathers did repeatedly but which is increasingly more often prohibited in the public square. 
