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A real American listens to the voice of their piers.
A real American does not take for granted, what our forefathers did to build a great nation. The greatest there has ever been.
A real American fights everyday to keep the USA unique and not just another nanny state European nation.
A real American has a say, instead of the King.
Oh, please. You are supplying a litmus test to define what is a "real American." No REAL American would do this. I'm sure you are legitimately concerned with many things going on today, but you should be deeply and sincerely disturbed with this trend of qualifying people. No AMERICAN should have to take an oath of loyalty to a Political Party. Go back and read what President Washington said about political parties. And NO AMERICAN should feel compelled to meet some arbitrary standards for patriotism that you are espousing. Yes, Americans have a say in their government (I don't know why you are bringing up the King--Elvis, Michael Jackson, Martin Luther King, What?), but my neighbor who isn't registered to vote is still just as much a Real American as I am, no matter how vocal I am or how many elections I've voted in.
Real Americans are any of the millions of people who are legal and loyal citizens of this country, no matter their religion, race, ethnicity, gender, or political persuasion. We are ALL Real Americans.
Oh, please. You are supplying a litmus test to define what is a "real American." No REAL American would do this. I'm sure you are legitimately concerned with many things going on today, but you should be deeply and sincerely disturbed with this trend of qualifying people. No AMERICAN should have to take an oath of loyalty to a Political Party. Go back and read what President Washington said about political parties. And NO AMERICAN should feel compelled to meet some arbitrary standards for patriotism that you are espousing. Yes, Americans have a say in their government (I don't know why you are bringing up the King--Elvis, Michael Jackson, Martin Luther King, What?), but my neighbor who isn't registered to vote is still just as much a Real American as I am, no matter how vocal I am or how many elections I've voted in.
Real Americans are any of the millions of people who are legal and loyal citizens of this country, no matter their religion, race, ethnicity, gender, or political persuasion. We are ALL Real Americans.
You state the Founders were not Christians. Documentation has been posted they were. Why are you denying this fact?
The people in the American Colonies were Christians..a few were Jews.
http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab264/Dragging_Canoe/VA_GAZET_Images_R_1773_0069hi.jpg (broken link) See the word Christians in the top right hand corner.
You state the Founders were not Christians. Documentation has been posted they were. Why are you denying this fact?
The people in the American Colonies were Christians..a few were Jews.
See the word Christians in the top right hand corner.
Actually, no, what I said was that some of the Founding Fathers were Christians, and some were not. The majority of American colonists did follow the Christian faith, some followed other faiths, some simply believed in a Divine deity and didn't subscribe to any organized faith at all. Belief in God does not mean that a person is a Christian. A respect for the Bible does not make one a Christian. Using an indicator of which calendar you are using does not make one a Christian.
Why do I struggle to make the clarification? Because one thing our Founding Fathers did agree on was that no religion, and especially not the religion shared by the majority of the people, should have political power. And Mr Beck is trying to subvert this concept. Whether he's doing it to drum up ratings, or whether he really believes that we need more religion in the political spectrum, I don't know. But I know he's wrong. And I will rebut his attempts to spin history to meet his own agenda, because I believe the Founding Fathers were right in designing a secular government.
They talked a lot about God, but not about Christ or Christian beliefs or personal salvation. Do you have quotes of them taking about Christ? Jefferson is on my avatar for reasons other than his faith, mainly on his stance of central banking. Now that you mention it, I might remove it from my avatar for his views on Christianity. Him, and other founding fathers went through a lot of trouble to keep church out of the government and God out of the constitution. Jefferson called the trinity "incomprehensible jargon" that should be done away with. He was universalist/deist/atheist who used Bible verses on the campaign trail because he knew the population had great respect for the church and religion. Remember that is was him and Madison who authored the separation of church and state and together they opposed any support for churches in Virginia. And he called Calvin's views demonic and he said that Calvin worshipped false Gods.
Many founding fathers believed in a God as a creator, but not divinity of Jesus Christ, and that makes them universalists. Can you find quotes of founding fathers talking about Christ? I am not saying they were all unitarians and universalists, but many were.
Thomas Paine talked about God a lot, but never about Christ.
Washington never declared to be Christian and his army chaplain was a known universalist John Murray who denied the existence of hell.
John Adams declared "the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion." Adams was a unitarian.
Ethan Allen" "I am generally denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian"
Benjamin Franklin : As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion...has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble." He died a month later, and historians consider him, like so many great Americans of his time, to be a Deist, not a Christian.
Franklin autobiography:
[I believe] That there is one God, who made all things. That he governs the world by his providence. That he ought to be worshiped by adoration, prayer, and thanksgiving. But that the most acceptable service of God is doing good to man. That the soul is immortal. And that God will certainly reward virtue and punish vice, either here or hereafter.
Not that is matters. They all promoted religious freedom, and US remained a Christian nation whether or not they themselves believed in Christ as their personal saviour. I wonder if universalism was popular back then due to the abuse practised by church back in those days.
Actually, no, what I said was that some of the Founding Fathers were Christians, and some were not. The majority of American colonists did follow the Christian faith, some followed other faiths, some simply believed in a Divine deity and didn't subscribe to any organized faith at all. Belief in God does not mean that a person is a Christian. A respect for the Bible does not make one a Christian. Using an indicator of which calendar you are using does not make one a Christian.
Why do I struggle to make the clarification? Because one thing our Founding Fathers did agree on was that no religion, and especially not the religion shared by the majority of the people, should have political power. And Mr Beck is trying to subvert this concept. Whether he's doing it to drum up ratings, or whether he really believes that we need more religion in the political spectrum, I don't know. But I know he's wrong. And I will rebut his attempts to spin history to meet his own agenda, because I believe the Founding Fathers were right in designing a secular government.
You are way off base. Beck is not saying that we need more religion in the political realm. He is saying the opposite. What he IS saying is that people need to have more faith in whatever they choose, since that is what got our country to where it is today. Where do you guys get your information from? Or should I say misinformation? This is getting very sad that people are this misinformed in this day and age.
Actually, no, what I said was that some of the Founding Fathers were Christians, and some were not. The majority of American colonists did follow the Christian faith, some followed other faiths, some simply believed in a Divine deity and didn't subscribe to any organized faith at all. Belief in God does not mean that a person is a Christian. A respect for the Bible does not make one a Christian. Using an indicator of which calendar you are using does not make one a Christian.
Why do I struggle to make the clarification? Because one thing our Founding Fathers did agree on was that no religion, and especially not the religion shared by the majority of the people, should have political power. And Mr Beck is trying to subvert this concept. Whether he's doing it to drum up ratings, or whether he really believes that we need more religion in the political spectrum, I don't know. But I know he's wrong. And I will rebut his attempts to spin history to meet his own agenda, because I believe the Founding Fathers were right in designing a secular government.
Please list the Founders who were not Christians. Full names.
You are way off base. Beck is not saying that we need more religion in the political realm. He is saying the opposite. What he IS saying is that people need to have more faith in whatever they choose, since that is what got our country to where it is today. Where do you guys get your information from? Or should I say misinformation? This is getting very sad that people are this misinformed in this day and age.
That may be your interpretation. But it's not mine. He's a political commentator who repeatedly remarks that we are a Christian nation, and remarks about Christian values. His implication is often that the people on the right side of the political spectrum embrace these Christian values and that people on the left side do not. And since he is a proponent for the political right-wing, it would seem that he does, indeed, think that our government should be more inclusive of Christian values.
I would like a government that better epitomized my values, which I flatter myself to think are Christian values, but I also think are human values. And I think the fears of the Founding Fathers, that giving the majority of the population unfettered political power is a recipe for an authoritarian, freedom-less society, is a well-founded fear. So again, Beck wants to give exposure to sanctimonious evangelical Christians that want to revise history, and I will rebut their revisions. I will argue. I'm not right all the time, I learn a lot from people like you who offer up different viewpoints and opinions, but a blanket statement like, "Our Founding Fathers were Christians", is not true. Some were, others weren't. And that is a FACT.
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