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Refusing to indulge in negative thinking is not the same as positive thinking. That would be saying a terrible situation is wonderful, rather than just saying I refuse to be upset by it, or worry about it, I have better things to think about.. You can probably find some good aspect to almost anything if you try. Refusing to be miserable is not the same as being perpetually happy. But it does create contentment and lets you enjoy what you have instead of fretting over what you don't have. I refuse to think of the future. To me the future is today, tomorrow, maybe next week. Whatever comes up, I'll deal with it when it does.
I am very realistic too, I face everything realistically. But you are right it is mind control. People exercise control over their bodies, why not their emotions? Why indulge emotions that keep you miserable? The way I see it, negative emotions like fear or disappointment or worry are just adding another layer of suffering to whatever you are already being faced with. It's like punching yourself in the jaw in response to a toothache.
To me it's illogical to add more misery to a situation when it's not necessary, and rather than help, just makes things worse. Life usually only sucks when you think it does. It's not the situation that makes it suck, it's your thinking it sucks that does it. They way I see it, if something bothers you, you can change it or accept it. Anything else is a waste of time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by otterhere
How is that not denial or stuffing your feelings? Or even mind control imposed on yourself by yourself? I think I'm quite realistic, and that suits me. I'm happy about the good things and unhappy about the bad things; I wouldn't want it any other way. Sometimes life just sucks, and I'm not going to lie to myself or anyone else about it.
If I'm not perpetually happy as a result, so be it; life was never intended to be thus, IMO.
I can't remember in which thread I shared this (it might have even been this one), but it's an interesting take on the positive thinking movement in America:
I have learned to catch my negative and fearful thoughts and cut them off, and think of something else. I read that fear and worry tend to run in your head over and over like a tape loop if you don't stop them. I learned to cut them off and change the tape by thinking of something else. I also learned it's not what happens but how you think about it that counts the most. As Shakespeare said, "There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." I also learned that feeling sorry for myself is the worst thing I can do so I cut that off quickly as well. We really don't know how things will work out so it's best not to imagine future negative outcomes which may never happen. Or as one lady I remember once said "Don't borrow trouble".
Yes - for me, it's developing a new habit. My default has been worrying, ruminating, thinking of worse-case scenarios, etc. I see it as changing channels. It becomes easier with practice.
Interestingly, Alexa spontaneously said this to me recently:
"Think of your mind as a door - never open the door to sad feelings or negative thoughts."
I was astounded.
Self-pity is the worst - falling into that hole is miserable.
Life is much better and easier when negative thoughts aren't entertained. When one pops up, I just close my eyes for a second and purposely redirect to something else. If sitting, get up and do something. Anything.
As they say in 12 step environments: "Pick up a broom." Or in Buddhist teachings: "Chop wood, carry water."
But going to clinical therapy isn't just "venting." A trained therapist keeps patients from ruminating and provides guidance and insight as to how they can reframe their thought processes and progress through treatment.
I'm just coming at it from my personal experience. I am the type of person who can wallow and will wallow, if given any reason to. Therapy did not help me, much, at all (and have done it for years and years). I can think of one thing a therapist said to me that gave me insight. Just one thing!
Most just listen and don't direct the therapy. There's not much that can be realized in 50 minute sessions opening with niceties, then moving on to the past week's events, etc. Not much room for true creativity, connection, deep conversation, or insights.
Last edited by thinkingandwondering; 03-19-2022 at 11:53 AM..
I'm just coming at it from my personal experience. I am the type of person who can wallow and will wallow, if given any reason to. Therapy did not help me, much, at all (and have done it for years and years). I can think o one thing a therapist said to me that gave me insight. Just one thing!
Most just listen and don't direct the therapy. There's not much that can be realized in 50 minute sessions opening with niceties, then moving on to the past week's events, etc. Not much room for true creativity, connection, deep conversation, or insights.
That's unfortunate - there are other forms of therapy that are more "present" and "action" oriented rather than non-directive. You know, if the unresolved issues are from childhood, that's one thing. But relationship issues can benefit from relationship counseling (you don't have to be with an SO!). And there are more cognitively based therapies that can help you change the way you think (reframe situations) - like CBT.
Not all therapists are skilled in the different forms of therapy but a good one should tell you if they're not a good match for your kind of issue and if you don't feel the benefit you needn't feel bad about telling them and/or getting a referral to another therapist.
On the other hand, if your way of thinking is lifelong and you feeling quite down (yeah, not just "meh") you might be a candidate for antidepressants, even though lot on here consider that a dirty word. Getting the right kind of treatment isn't as easy as it should be and it can take awhile to find the best type of therapy and the best person to administer it - whether it's talk therapy, meds, or a combination of both.
That's unfortunate - there are other forms of therapy that are more "present" and "action" oriented rather than non-directive. You know, if the unresolved issues are from childhood, that's one thing. But relationship issues can benefit from relationship counseling (you don't have to be with an SO!). And there are more cognitively based therapies that can help you change the way you think (reframe situations) - like CBT.
Not all therapists are skilled in the different forms of therapy but a good one should tell you if they're not a good match for your kind of issue and if you don't feel the benefit you needn't feel bad about telling them and/or getting a referral to another therapist.
On the other hand, if your way of thinking is lifelong and you feeling quite down (yeah, not just "meh") you might be a candidate for antidepressants, even though lot on here consider that a dirty word. Getting the right kind of treatment isn't as easy as it should be and it can take awhile to find the best type of therapy and the best person to administer it - whether it's talk therapy, meds, or a combination of both.
I'm not depressed.
I go through periods of depression, but I take magic mushrooms and inventory my thinking when I start feeling depressed. I am also aware of anger/resentment/frustration/sadness/grief underlying my feelings of depression and I get in touch with those.
I trained with would-be therapists in grad-school, so I know more about "counseling" than the average bear (whenever this subject comes up, there is always the advice to "go to therapy" or "start taking anti-depressants." No and no. Anti-depressants don't even work (see scholarly papers on the subject, Black Box warnings, etc. - not to mention long-term effects on the body/brain). I think it's irresponsible to advise people to put foreign substances in their bodies, just willy/nilly.
...one who told me about the negative effects wheat can have on some people. I starting doing research on my own and was shocked. It wasnt easy but once I changed my diet I felt soooooo much better.
It's true. Good for you!
Back in the day schizophrenia was called 'bread madness'. Research papers published in the Lancet in the 1960’s called it this term. Go online and do some research about it to see. You'll be surprised.
I don't eat it either. I have insomnia when I eat it but it took me a long time + experimenting with lots of diets to realize that gluten AND carbs make me incapable of sleeping enough.
Last edited by farm108; 03-19-2022 at 05:16 PM..
Reason: more complete
That's unfortunate - there are other forms of therapy that are more "present" and "action" oriented rather than non-directive. You know, if the unresolved issues are from childhood, that's one thing. But relationship issues can benefit from relationship counseling (you don't have to be with an SO!). And there are more cognitively based therapies that can help you change the way you think (reframe situations) - like CBT.
Not all therapists are skilled in the different forms of therapy but a good one should tell you if they're not a good match for your kind of issue and if you don't feel the benefit you needn't feel bad about telling them and/or getting a referral to another therapist.
On the other hand, if your way of thinking is lifelong and you feeling quite down (yeah, not just "meh") you might be a candidate for antidepressants, even though lot on here consider that a dirty word. Getting the right kind of treatment isn't as easy as it should be and it can take awhile to find the best type of therapy and the best person to administer it - whether it's talk therapy, meds, or a combination of both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkingandwondering
I'm not depressed.
I go through periods of depression, but I take magic mushrooms and inventory my thinking when I start feeling depressed. I am also aware of anger/resentment/frustration/sadness/grief underlying my feelings of depression and I get in touch with those.
I trained with would-be therapists in grad-school, so I know more about "counseling" than the average bear (whenever this subject comes up, there is always the advice to "go to therapy" or "start taking anti-depressants." No and no. Anti-depressants don't even work (see scholarly papers on the subject, Black Box warnings, etc. - not to mention long-term effects on the body/brain). I think it's irresponsible to advise people to put foreign substances in their bodies, just willy/nilly.
I hardly think anything I said was stated in a willy-nilly manner - some reason why you wish to take offense? So buy your books on positivism and take a read when you are having a wallowing pity party then.
Oh right - 'shrooms - go for it - I'd go with ketamine or MDMA but whatever - they're ALL foreign substances though, right? Even if you want to think of 'shrooms as all natural. I prefer medication that can be measured out in consistent and standardized doses and I'm not looking for a trippy experience.
I hardly think anything I said was stated in a willy-nilly manner - some reason why you wish to take offense? So buy your books on positivism and take a read when you are having a wallowing pity party then.
Oh right - 'shrooms - go for it - I'd go with ketamine or MDMA but whatever - they're ALL foreign substances though, right? Even if you want to think of 'shrooms as all natural. I prefer medication that can be measured out in consistent and standardized doses and I'm not looking for a trippy experience.
I'm not offended.
You evidently don't know that magic mushrooms can be microdosed. There is no perceivable effect that you can feel as far as feeling "trippy" might be concerned.
There are studies being done right now on the effects on depression, and they are very promising,
I don't think I said anything about "books on 'positivism'" (would never use that term). What might you be referring to?
Refusing to indulge in negative thinking is not the same as positive thinking. That would be saying a terrible situation is wonderful, rather than just saying I refuse to be upset by it, or worry about it, I have better things to think about.. You can probably find some good aspect to almost anything if you try. Refusing to be miserable is not the same as being perpetually happy. But it does create contentment and lets you enjoy what you have instead of fretting over what you don't have. I refuse to think of the future. To me the future is today, tomorrow, maybe next week. Whatever comes up, I'll deal with it when it does.
I am very realistic too, I face everything realistically. But you are right it is mind control. People exercise control over their bodies, why not their emotions? Why indulge emotions that keep you miserable? The way I see it, negative emotions like fear or disappointment or worry are just adding another layer of suffering to whatever you are already being faced with. It's like punching yourself in the jaw in response to a toothache.
To me it's illogical to add more misery to a situation when it's not necessary, and rather than help, just makes things worse. Life usually only sucks when you think it does. It's not the situation that makes it suck, it's your thinking it sucks that does it. They way I see it, if something bothers you, you can change it or accept it. Anything else is a waste of time.
It has nothing to do with logic. There is a miswiring in my brain, it's more of OCD/compulsive thoughts than choosing to repeat awful thoughts. Same with people like OP who just feel unhappy and have poor self-esteem, it would be awesome if we could just choose differently but for people with depression, anxiety disorders, OCD, etc it is not a choice. We spend our lives trying to get out of the negative loop.
My mother was this way, my brother is this way, I was this way even as a kid.
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