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Old 07-06-2007, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Austin TX
959 posts, read 4,494,091 times
Reputation: 467

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It's getting really old to see people repeatedly told not to live in Durham b/c of the false belief that violent crime is happening all over the city and all the schools are "bad". City-data posts are one of the primary search results that come up when googling (I use google exclusively so can't speak to other engines) and it's very disappointing to see people in neighboring cities tell relocators not to live here.

Before we bought in Durham we were strongly urged several times (including by two realtors) to not even look in Durham. Not one of them - which they each admitted - was actually familiar with the city. One was my own husband who had never been past an industrial area by RTP and wasn't even aware Durham had a downtown An incredible downtown btw (see some of the photo threads stickied to the top of the triangle forum).

We *almost* didn't look b/c of all the negativity but I began talking to moms Moderator cut: removed who actually lived in Durham (N, W, and SW areas) and slowly began to discover on my own what a great place it is for families. Another big factor was finding the website we-love-durham.com which showed many of Durham's positives.

The reason I even began to dig deeper was that I LOVED SW Durham's central location combined with all the incredible shopping - Streets of Southpoint as well as ALL the big box stores within a few miles (yes I'm shallow that way) -in the area. My husband ended up getting a job in N Chapel Hill, but with four children # of bedrooms was important to us and Chapel Hill's per sq footage prices were almost the same as what we were trying to get away from in Northern Virginia. Also, if my husband ever needed to work in RTP, it would be an extremely short commute to there as well. Now his commute to N Chapel Hill is 12 mins! We wanted to maximize the time he spent with the children every day and our suburban Durham location does just that

Speaking of suburbia...while people always tout downtown Durham's fabulous urban lifestyle, what is less often advertised is that Durham also boasts many many heavily treed suburban subdivisions (Durham is plagued/blessed with HOA's too), and in north Durham county areas that are still very rural and/or back to protected forests.

I also researched the schools b/c I kept hearing the blanket statement that all Durham schools are "bad". I discovered that there are indeed two high schools that are doing very poorly. They also happen (not surprisingly) to channel out of the high crime areas in the city (as well as areas that don't have violent crime issues). However, as I've posted elsewhere, the other three high schools in Durham are in Newsweek's top 1300 high schools in the US, with Jordan High School ranking #190. Here are all the NC high schools listed:
America's Top Public High Schools - Newsweek America's Best High Schools - MSNBC.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18757087/?sort=Rank&count=1236&start=0&limit=100&year=2005& Search=NC - broken link)

This comparative speaks for itself as to a Durham public school education being on par with that of neighboring counties (and note that the includes scores from the two struggling high schools!). A quote - "the bottom line is that Durham compares favorably, and families can reliably focus relocation decisions on the communities that fufill lifestyle preferences and lessen traffic and commute times"
http://www.durham-nc.com/pdf/2006school_scores.pdf (broken link)

Durham was ranked the sixth smartest city in the US by Forbes.com (see link below) The city is packed with highly educated people, many of whom send their children to Durham public schools Forbes.com also has Durham listed as the #7 best metro area for business or career. It's known for having an inordinate amount of creative people - a lot of advertising, marketing, etc businesses are here. And Research Triangle Park is almost entirely inside Durham county. The smartest city ranking is as a result of the high proportion of Durham residents who have degrees and advanced degrees:
America's Smartest Cities - Forbes.com

Here Durham was ranked the #3 best small city for relocating families:
http://www.primacy.com/resources/PRIM-5472.pdf (broken link)

Sperling's "City's Ranked and Rated" book has the Durham metro area ranked as #15:
Amazon.com: Cities Ranked & Rated: More than 400 Metropolitan Areas Evaluated in the U.S. and Canada: Books: Bert Sperling,Peter Sander

Crime is another reason often cited as a reason to not live in Durham, yet the crime rate has been decreasing steadily since the early 90's. The city's crime reputation however seems like it's never going to budge

This past year alone Durham's murder rate dropped by 57%, from 35 murders in 2005 to 15 murders in 2006. In another thread I posted the outgoing police chief's letter to the city about what they've been doing to lower the crime rate. It's really neat how involved they are in the community as well. Note he says that the violent crime rate is even lower this year.
//www.city-data.com/forum/ralei...ice-chief.html

Looking across the state, the below North Carolina cities had higher violent crime per 100,000 people rates than Durham in 2005. Should noone ever live in these cities either?

Burlington
Charlotte
Fayetteville
Greenville

Just some of the many many cities in the US with higher violent crime rates per 100,000 people than Durham in 2005 (the one that really surprised me was Lafayette, LA b/c it's violent crime rate in 2005 was MUCH MUCH higher than Durham's but I went to college there and it definitely didn't have a dangerous city reputation )

Harrisonburg, VA
Hot Springs, AZ
Lafayette, LA
Kansas City, KS
Fresno, CA
Indianapolis, IN
Jacksonville, FL
Dallas, TX
Albuquerqe, NM
Anchorage, AK
Baltimore, MD
Charleston, SC

Here is a very long article which is definitely worth the read. Very interesting, thoroughly researched, and well written. A Duke undergrad was assigned an article concerning Durham's image problem. He was chosen b/c he was new to the area and therefore a clean slate. Check it out:
Independent Weekly: News: Durham: Durham: The making of an image

More positive articles about Durham:
NCGMA Feature Article - Destination Durham
Durham, NC | Media | Twenty Reasons to Build and Live In Durham (http://www.durham-nc.com/media/evergreens-backgrounders/relocation/twenty_reasons.php - broken link)

Our latest (there have been many) positive experience in Durham was on July 4th at the seventh annual Children's Processional Parade held downtown at Central Park. It was jam packed with families. The Scrap Exchange had tables set up so children could decorate their scooters, bikes, wagons, and strollers. The event was organized by the developers of Central Park, and they provided balloons, water, and popsicles. A raffle was held for children to win prizes from the Play House Toy Store on Ninth Street.

A fire engine from Station 1 was parked there, and blared it's sirens during the parade. Afterwards they hooked the fire truck up to the city water and made a huge sprinkler for everyone to enjoy for a few minutes. I got totally completely soaked (on purpose - I was one of the very few parents who jumped in) and was quite glad I wasn't wearing a white tshirt It felt AMAZING in the 80+ degrees

My kids had a blast and we are so enjoying living in Durham. You will too

Last edited by autumngal; 02-07-2008 at 05:11 PM..
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Old 07-06-2007, 09:08 AM
 
3,353 posts, read 4,967,597 times
Reputation: 964
OMG, this is the greatest post ever. I've got to confess that it's gotten me so angry that I keep telling myself to stay away from this forum (but I get good info here so I keep coming back). If I had listened to people I might have ended up in Cary, which is lovely for many but personally wouldn't have made me very happy at all (too suburban).

Thanks for posting this, you said it much better that I would have!
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Old 07-06-2007, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Durham, NC
2,024 posts, read 5,916,281 times
Reputation: 3478
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Indigoblue again."

Great post!
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Old 07-06-2007, 09:14 AM
 
3,353 posts, read 4,967,597 times
Reputation: 964
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bull City Rising View Post
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Indigoblue again."
Yeah I got that too

(the spirit was willing, Indigoblue!)
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Old 07-06-2007, 09:20 AM
bta
 
Location: Cary, NC
284 posts, read 1,885,649 times
Reputation: 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorp200 View Post
If I had listened to people I might have ended up in Cary
That's kinda funny. The two places that get bashed the most on this forum: Durham and Cary. On the one post that finally clears up a lot of rumors and lists the positives of Durham, Cary still gets smacked down. Come on now - don't make me start a stop bashing Cary thread.


Indigoblue - very nice post. Rep points coming your way.
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Old 07-06-2007, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Hillsborough
2,825 posts, read 6,927,780 times
Reputation: 2669
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorp200 View Post
Yeah I got that too

(the spirit was willing, Indigoblue!)
Same here!
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Old 07-06-2007, 09:26 AM
 
3,353 posts, read 4,967,597 times
Reputation: 964
Quote:
Originally Posted by bta View Post
That's kinda funny. The two places that get bashed the most on this forum: Durham and Cary. On the one post that finally clears up a lot of rumors and lists the positives of Durham, Cary still gets smacked down. Come on now - don't make me start a stop bashing Cary thread.


Indigoblue - very nice post. Rep points coming your way.
WTF? You took 1/2 my sentence and called it a Cary smackdown. My sentence specified that Cary isn't right for ME because it's too suburban and I base that on having been there. I in no way bashed it, in fact I specifically noted that I recognize it is lovely for some people who seek a suburban lifestyle, which in no way is a negative criticism.

You know what, that's it - I'm done. Thanks all for your help thus far but I'll seek the rest by asking people in real life. In Durham.
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Old 07-06-2007, 09:44 AM
 
4,606 posts, read 7,691,229 times
Reputation: 5242
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorp200 View Post
OMG, this is the greatest post ever. I've got to confess that it's gotten me so angry that I keep telling myself to stay away from this forum (but I get good info here so I keep coming back). If I had listened to people I might have ended up in Cary, which is lovely for many but personally wouldn't have made me very happy at all (too suburban).

Thanks for posting this, you said it much better that I would have!
yup, a very enlightening post to bring Durham to where it really belongs,

I was able to give her some luv, And I am sure it will not stop here.
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Old 07-06-2007, 09:45 AM
 
3,031 posts, read 9,089,948 times
Reputation: 842
I didn't get that as a Cary-bash. But I guess people are rightly sensitive about where they live. You research an area and make a big decision and the last thing you want to hear is people asking you "WHAT were you thinking?" or "are you nuts?", etc.

I was all for Cary myself judging from afar (things I've read, people I've spoken with who live down there or have traveled down there and of course, this forum). But you know what? When I finally got down there to look around, I quickly realized Cary was NOT my cup of tea. And I posted that impression here, careful to say this was my opinion ONLY. Cary is very nice--just not where I want to live. That said, I went on to convey that I really liked Chapel Hill and all I've heard back from people is a lot of negativity about elitism, super competitive schools, expensive, etc. To be fair, I haven't checked out Durham because of what I've read/heard and perhaps I should. I certainly like the downtown area. But if we move, I'm trying very hard to duplicate the parts of where we currently live that we like--and the layout of Chapel Hill fits that bill nicely. When you think about the angst of moving a kid going into 11th grade (as well as a middle schooler and a 2nd grader), well my attitude is that as much as I can make them comfortable with this move, that will be my goal.
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Old 07-06-2007, 09:58 AM
 
3,021 posts, read 11,060,843 times
Reputation: 1639
As usual, I agree with everything IndigoBlue has said. Oh, if only I could give you more reputation points right now!

When we first moved to the Triangle, we lived in Chapel Hill briefly and then in Hillsborough. During the first few months I heard negative things about Durham. Oddly enough, when I think back on it, I cannot recall from where I heard these things! It's as if it's just in the air somehow ... something that gets soaked into our unconscious when we aren't paying attention.

But then I met people who live in Durham. And we started to visit the town more and more for shopping, dining, and entertainment. I had so many positive experiences, I grew highly suspicious of all of the negative rumors. So I did my research and found that Durham really is the great place I thought it was. I found that other cities where I've lived - cities that are regarded as safe and very family-friendly - actually have higher crime rates and poorer school systems than Durham. It was quite a wake up call!

In the end, we chose to move to southern Durham and we love it. I love that my husband's commute is only 10 minutes. I love being so much closer to shopping and dining. I love being more centrally located to all that the Triangle has to offer. And I love the friendliness of the people we've encountered (although that's true for the entire Triangle!). What's more, we've had friends and family from all over come to visit us here & they've all been very impressed.

Durham was simply the right choice for us. I still love Chapel Hill and Hillsborough. Indeed, I think the Triangle is full of tons of wonderful places to live! I honestly don't understand why some people feel the need to knock other towns. The fact is that no town in this area is perfect for everyone. I tend to think that we are lucky to have such a wealth of choices here.

And believe me ... I'm not a blissfully ignorant Pollyanna type. I actually have a natural leaning towards pessimism. That's why I did my homework. And that's why it's a true testament to the city of Durham that I have chosen to make it my home.
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