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How did they drop the ball? We have enough coming to vaccinate everyone who wants it. Pfizer couldn't deliver the additional orders until 2Q as we've already bought up their initial supply and by then we already had enough scheduled supply of better, more viable vaccines. It was unnecessary. Let it go to the other countries who need it vs stockpiling it here in the US IMO. No need to horde. This isn't TP.
As it is, half the country has said they won't get it, at least initially, so my guess is we're going to have vaccines sitting unused especially as summer comes and cases drop off a cliff.
You may not have a reading comp issue but you are letting your hatred for those in charge cloud your logical reasoning here.
That's sort a big assumption on your part especially since you don't know anything about me. And you seem to be making a lot of assumptions which is your prerogative. Like I said, you have your opinion, I have mine. Calling people illogical or lazy readers is poor form. Have at it though. I'm done. Peace.
Logistically Pfizer's vaccine is a nightmare. It was fine to order some to cover us as other vaccines roll in but some can be stored in a fridge for 30 days vs -100*F. That might work for larger cities with the capacity but not for most of America that lives in a more rural environment (ie places like Louisburg, Rocky Mount, etc).......
This is an interesting article on the vaccine process. The Moderna vaccine was completed Jan 13. Yes, a year ago. Our regulatory process is insanely cumbersome and outdated...given the choice, how many would've voluntarily taken this on their own? The approach used makes sense in normal times, not when hundreds of thousands are dying a year in this country alone.
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Back when they placed the original orders, they ordered from six different companies to spread their risk around. EVERY OTHER country did the same thing (look at the UK for example) save for a few smaller ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal
EU ordered 200MM doses (100MM people) for a 445MM population; they don't expect to receive doses until our 100MM is fulfilled. The 300MM figure includes their options.
UK ordered 40MM doses (20MM people) for a 63MM population. They may get 10MM this year since we haven't approved yet. If you were Pfizer, wouldn't you push every dose to UK you could until the FDA actually approves you?
For those of you who are more up on this than me, which occurred to me when watching the news today. I know they sound naive but I'm asking anyway.
One is, with all the effort to transport, store and distribute the vaccines when they become available, do they have indications on what the demand for these will be? Could they get this wrong and the take-up is less than anticipated and precious batches go stale past their time?
At what point do vaccines go from elective to mandated?
Updates on the news today about other countries queuing up to buy out the US supply of the vaccines - isn't this the whole mask debacle all over again? At what point does this become a matter of national security over a commercial one, if that's even possible at this point?
For those of you who are more up on this than me, which occurred to me when watching the news today. I know they sound naive but I'm asking anyway.
One is, with all the effort to transport, store and distribute the vaccines when they become available, do they have indications on what the demand for these will be? Could they get this wrong and the take-up is less than anticipated and precious batches go stale past their time?
All indications are that demand will outstrip supply among the first groups who will be eligible for the vaccine initially (healthcare workers, nursing home residents, etc.).
"Public health officials don't expect there will be enough COVID-19 vaccine doses to cover high-risk populations until at least next year, The Wall Street Journal reported.
Experts have estimated that more than 100 million Americans are high-risk and should be vaccinated before the general public. High-risk populations include physicians, nurses and other front-line healthcare workers, as well as nursing home residents. They are considered high-risk because they're at greater risk of exposure to the virus or at greater risk of contracting more severe COVID-19 disease.
If a vaccine is approved this year, initial supplies look like they'll only cover a fraction of those 100 million people, the Journal reported."
At what point do vaccines go from elective to mandated?
There's no real answer for that. Its extremely unlikely there will be a national requirement that everyone has to get the vaccine, just as there isn't one for any other vaccine. Will certain employers make it it mandatory for their employees? Will hospitals require their employees, patients and visitors to be vaccinated? Will nursing homes require all residents be vaccinated? Will school systems make it mandatory for staff and /or students? Yes, no, maybe?
While storage issue may present challenges, particularly in rural areas, I wouldn't consider it a nightmare especially since the vast majority of the US population is not in rural areas.
Plus there's this:
"Defrosted vials of (Pfizer's) vaccine remain stable for up to five days if kept at 2-8 degrees Celsius." So its not like it has to kept at -80 C right up until the minute its injected. Plenty of time to get it to more rural areas.
One is, with all the effort to transport, store and distribute the vaccines when they become available, do they have indications on what the demand for these will be? Could they get this wrong and the take-up is less than anticipated and precious batches go stale past their time?
I think demand for high risk groups is already high, and from all reports I've seen, willingness to take the vaccine in general is rising. On NewsHour last night, they reported on a poll showing willingness has already increased from a low of 50% in September to 63%. I think that will only keep going up after the FDA review and as people start seeing other people getting it. The vaccines will likely get normalized just like many other vaccines have.
Given that, it seems like there's little chance batches could go bad due to lack of interest, and they can be stored for a while in the proper conditions. Mandy Cohen mentioned yesterday in the press conference that the first batches of the Pfizer vaccine are going to hospitals as soon as it's approved by the FDA and will be held there until they can be further distributed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Repatriot
At what point do vaccines go from elective to mandated?
Updates on the news today about other countries queuing up to buy out the US supply of the vaccines - isn't this the whole mask debacle all over again?
I think there's almost no chance the vaccine will be mandated by the government. That said, I have been wondering if it may at some point be added to the required list of vaccines for schools and universities.
I've also been hearing about "vaccine passports" which reminds me of the wristbands in Contagion. This seems pretty creepy to me so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Repatriot
At what point does this become a matter of national security over a commercial one, if that's even possible at this point?
If you mean the government trying to flex its power and trying to take some control from pharmaceutical companies, Trump did sign an executive order yesterday to prioritize shipments of vaccines from US companies to Americans first before going to other countries citing the Defense Production Act. It seems like it has little teeth though and looks like sour grapes and is quite frankly an embarrassment that other officials seem to be backing away from.
Last edited by ITB_OG; 12-09-2020 at 06:36 AM..
Reason: left out a word
Local hospitals are saying they will run out of beds in about 6 weeks spread continues at the current rate.
I know there are data nerds here who like to break down the numbers, but this news in addition to what was reported in the governor's press conference yesterday is pretty concerning. Given the grim picture painted, I was a little surprised that the only real changes the governor made was to restrict on-site alcohol sales after 9pm and require non-essential business to close at 10pm.
Cohen/Cooper didn't seem overly concerned about hospitals at yesterday's press conference. More concerned about closing restaurants at 10pm for some reason even though that's really not the source of the problem.
Below are the graphs for CapRAC (Triangle). Yes there's a slight increase but I would have to assume there's a slight increase at this time of year every year. Again hospitals exist to make money, so it doesn't make sense for them to run with tons of empty beds, especially ICU beds. ICU's are almost always near capacity. I think staffing levels are probably the bigger concern, as more and more need to quarantine, unfortunately maybe unnecessarily due to how we test.
I haven't heard anything about hospitals stopping elective surgeries like they did at the beginning of the pandemic. It's possible I just missed the news.
Not discounting that there's an increase in hospitalizations that we definitely need to keep an eye on, but I think that WRAL article was a bit much, and a little coincidental that it came out 2 hours before Cooper's press conference.
There are boatloads of reasons that asymptomatic people get tested. Many get tested prior to traveling or prior to seeing people. Many people's jobs require them to get tested. Many people have anxiety and get tested every time they feel like they may feel something funny. Kids have to get tested if they get sent home from school for ANY symptom whether it's a covid symptom or not. Anyone entering a hospital gets tested. People who have had covid continue to get tested to see if their results turn negative, even though they may not have symptoms anymore. I have a friend from another state that gets tested 3 times a week just because their work provides it.
Tons of asymptomatic people get tested.
Your friend has tested positive how many times in all his testing? I am not arguing that asymptomatic people are finding out they are positive, I am saying that the reason we have a 90% negative rate is that we have all these people testing for whatever the reason maybe. That the number of people going in with symptoms and testing is the majority of the 10% testing positive. Not that the majority of the 10% are asymptomatic.
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