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The GOP won the GA in 2010 (after generations of Democrat control) despite Democrat gerrymandering, as the party began to shift even more and more to the left at the national level and even Democrat gerrymandered lines couldn't save the party. Consider this, in 2010--the last year where voters operated under Democrat gerrymandered lines--Democrats won a majority of US House seats in NC, despite losing the popular vote by hundreds of thousands of votes and nearly 10% points in what was a GOP wave election.
The exact opposite has happened in election cycles since. Majority of votes to Democratic candidates; yet supermajority elected Republicans.
FWIW I think the Wake County Board of Commissioners all being elected at-large (resulting in an all-Democratic board) instead of by residents in their respective districts is also quite wacky and should be changed.
The exact opposite has happened in election cycles since. Majority of votes to Democratic candidates; yet supermajority elected Republicans.
FWIW I think the Wake County Board of Commissioners all being elected at-large (resulting in an all-Democratic board) instead of by residents in their respective districts is also quite wacky and should be changed.
Also.... this isn't Brooklyn or Honolulu
I am not blind to Republican partisan gerrymandering efforts once they won control of the NCGA in 2010 despite generations of Democrat partisan gerrymandering efforts to diminish their power. I merely write here to point out selective hypocrisy from those who attack Republicans for engaging in partisan gerrymandering when Democrats did it themselves when in power.
Also, I didn't realize I had to live in a state to post in its sub-forum? By the way, my NC ties run deep and are generational . . . not that this makes a difference in my view. Fundamentally, what matters is that I am discussing NC issues and not hijacking the sub-forum with other state, etc., issues.
The exact opposite has happened in election cycles since. Majority of votes to Democratic candidates; yet supermajority elected Republicans.
FWIW I think the Wake County Board of Commissioners all being elected at-large (resulting in an all-Democratic board) instead of by residents in their respective districts is also quite wacky and should be changed.
Also.... this isn't Brooklyn or Honolulu
This is the dilemma, everyone agrees that gerrymandering is bad but nobody is willing to sacrifice their power to do anything about it.
I am not blind to Republican partisan gerrymandering efforts once they won control of the NCGA in 2010 despite generations of Democrat partisan gerrymandering efforts to diminish their power. I merely write here to point out selective hypocrisy from those who attack Republicans for engaging in partisan gerrymandering when Democrats did it themselves when in power.
Also, I didn't realize I had to live in a state to post in its sub-forum? By the way, my NC ties run deep and are generational . . . not that this makes a difference in my view. Fundamentally, what matters is that I am discussing NC issues and not hijacking the sub-forum with other state, etc., issues.
I mean you don't....but you'd think you'd get your fix of "anti-woke" dogwhistling posts in the NY and P&OC subforums no?
The reality, as anyone who knows anything about NC history, is that democrats had no need to gerrymander anything until the 1970's because everyone was a democrat. The idea that republicans were gerrymandered for the past 100 years in NC is not correct. There weren't any republicans to gerrymander in the first place until well into the 60's. And has been pointed out, republicans suffered no harm due to real/imagined/perceived gerrymandering in the 70's, 80's and 90's. The problem is the majority of republicans who have lost their collective minds lately. I'd take Jim Martin, Jim Broyhill or Cass Ballenger in a heartbeat today.
In any event, 2 wrongs don't make a right, as the current argument seems to be. Whataboutism at its finest.
If everyone was a Democrat until the 1970s, why were Republicans still winning congressional seats and seats in the NCGA during this period? Richard Nixon won NC in a landslide with 70% of the vote in 1972 , but Republicans won 4 out of 11 seats in the US House from NC that year. Yes, I understand that ticket splitting was undoubtedly a factor, but something tells me that the GOP's performance in NC raw vote-wise for US House elections that year (and in other elections around this time) did not reflect their performance at the ballot box.
Moving on, in 1968, the GOP candidate won 40% of the vote in NC, in 1964 the GOP candidate won 44% of the vote in NC, in 1960 the GOP candidate won 48% of the vote in NC, in 1956 the GOP candidate won 49% of the vote in NC. Note, these are all for presidential elections.
It is simply not true that there was no need to gerrymander the state as "everyone was a democrat" and this is a common myth pushed by many who also like to claim that the parties magically switched sides post CRA and VRA passing; actual election results from the presidential level on down don't support such a contention. Even though Democrats long had significant party registration advantages over Republicans in NC, you still had a substantial minority of voters who pulled the lever for Republicans. But the GOP US House election results in NC didn't reflect these trends, largely due to effective Democrat gerrymandering. Hell, throughout the 1950s, only 1 GOPer represented NC in the US House (the other 11 members were exclusively Democrats during this period), despite the GOP performing much stronger than that in raw vote totals (using US Senate and presidential elections as a base), something I argue is only possible due to gerrymandering at the time.
Again, demographic realities and changing political priorities resulted in Democrat gerrymandering being less effective overtime, but it is simply false to claim that Democrats did not gerrymander then for partisan advantage or that they had no need to do so.
Why is this important? It's true that two wrongs don't make a right. But when we see relative recent examples of people bashing GOP redistricting efforts while these same players remained silent in the face of Democrat redistricting (remember, NC operated under Democrat gerrymandered maps through the 2010 election for elections to the NCGA and US House of Representatives), it begs a question of how serious people actually are about combatting partisan gerrymandering. Put differently, one's outrage about partisan gerrymandering means much less if one only really cares about it if their side of the aisle is on the outs.
If everyone was a Democrat until the 1970s, why were Republicans still winning congressional seats and seats in the NCGA during this period? Richard Nixon won NC in a landslide with 70% of the vote in 1972 , but Republicans won 4 out of 11 seats in the US House from NC that year. Yes, I understand that ticket splitting was undoubtedly a factor, but something tells me that the GOP's performance in NC raw vote-wise for US House elections that year (and in other elections around this time) did not reflect their performance at the ballot box.
Moving on, in 1968, the GOP candidate won 40% of the vote in NC, in 1964 the GOP candidate won 44% of the vote in NC, in 1960 the GOP candidate won 48% of the vote in NC, in 1956 the GOP candidate won 49% of the vote in NC. Note, these are all for presidential elections.
It is simply not true that there was no need to gerrymander the state as "everyone was a democrat" and this is a common myth pushed by many who also like to claim that the parties magically switched sides post CRA and VRA passing; actual election results from the presidential level on down don't support such a contention. Even though Democrats long had significant party registration advantages over Republicans in NC, you still had a substantial minority of voters who pulled the lever for Republicans. But the GOP US House election results in NC didn't reflect these trends, largely due to effective Democrat gerrymandering. Hell, throughout the 1950s, only 1 GOPer represented NC in the US House (the other 11 members were exclusively Democrats during this period), despite the GOP performing much stronger than that in raw vote totals (using US Senate and presidential elections as a base), something I argue is only possible due to gerrymandering at the time.
Again, demographic realities and changing political priorities resulted in Democrat gerrymandering being less effective overtime, but it is simply false to claim that Democrats did not gerrymander then for partisan advantage or that they had no need to do so.
Why is this important? It's true that two wrongs don't make a right. But when we see relative recent examples of people bashing GOP redistricting efforts while these same players remained silent in the face of Democrat redistricting (remember, NC operated under Democrat gerrymandered maps through the 2010 election for elections to the NCGA and US House of Representatives), it begs a question of how serious people actually are about combatting partisan gerrymandering. Put differently, one's outrage about partisan gerrymandering means much less if one only really cares about it if their side of the aisle is on the outs.
You briefly mention, but quickly dismiss split ticket voting. It was a huge force in NC voting, with the state often going red in federal elections and blue in state ones. Jesse Helms was a democrat until 1970. There were many, many (if not a majority) conservatives in the democratic party in nc.
You briefly mention, but quickly dismiss split ticket voting. It was a huge force in NC voting, with the state often going red in federal elections and blue in state ones. Jesse Helms was a democrat until 1970. There were many, many (if not a majority) conservatives in the democratic party in nc.
Well, they're arguing local politics in a place where they're never lived so expecting any knowledge is a stretch. Hold on while I jump in the NYC forums and explain how to, solve all their specific issues.
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By the way, my NC ties run deep and are generational . . . not that this makes a difference in my view. Fundamentally, what matters is that I am discussing NC issues and not hijacking the sub-forum with other state, etc., issues.
