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Then don't tell them you are doing it. Like I said before - if you distrust your wife or partner to the extent that you think she cheated on you, got impregnated by her lover, and then is trying to pass it off as your child - why would you have any qualms about getting a paternity test behind her back?
Some men being "afraid" of their wive's reactions isn't a good enough reason to make something mandatory.
Doing anything behind your partners back is deceptive. Some people are not liars and cheaters, and would rather be upfront about their intentions with their partners. I think its a perfect reason to make it mandatory, either at childs birth or before a child support order is issued. But alas, youll keep arguing with poor logic and selective reasoning until you are blue in the face, simply because you are unable to admit that you may have been wrong. Shocker!
This topic is the proof why paternity testing should be mandatory.
It's also filled with bigotry done by Brauwyn, I'll just quote one post that still hasn't got moderated:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn
Why do you think I give a fig about a cuckolded man? Who knows if he deserved to get cheated on. If you choose to live a dysfunctional life, put your penis in any vagina that will have you, there's nothing I can do about it. It is interesting. I never feel bad for Jerry Springer guests. I don't think anybody does.
That's just like how people don't care about pedophiles who get abused, raped and murdered in jail, they think they deserved it. Helping the felons to get away and perfect their strategy to assault someone else as well.
Do you feel bad for prostitutes and drug addicts that get raped? Lots of people generally don't care and think they deserve everything that happens to them as well. In fact, 90% of rape victims are prostitutes or women who use drugs, are drinking severely, etc. Someone abuses that attitude to get away with it. It's not like a profile of a typical rape victim is Hilary Clinton, a profile of a typical victim is quite different, and so are circumstances. Other 10% generally involve close family persons/relatives and scenarios that will creep out most people in this topic.
But you know, someone actually made a whole care-movement for anything female regardless of being prostitute or not. Because they thought that such attitudes helps the perpetrators to get away with it. There are attempts to extend it to everyone else as well and general conclusion is that people need to take care what they speak out loudly, because their approval of such behavior actually promotes and celebrate villains and bashes the victims, making it harder to prosecute.
People realize that their previous thinking this way is not okay (regardless that they hate those prostitutes, perophiles, felons, etc and feel morally and intellectually superior). But you don't qualify in this group that realizes it. I think you'd be the first to scream loudly of bigotry is someone actually posted this about a woman deserving getting beat up, shot to death, or something. Yet you post something like this.
It doesn't surprise me though. You are also pro-choice yet you argue the "should have kept it in his pants" in other posts when people argued that pro-choice should also involve man's right to abort his obligations towards a child he doesn't want, since he's literally treated like a sperm donor by the legislation.
Having a few pregnancies scares with women that you aren't married to or in a committed relationship with is vastly different than me having a child with my husband - which we planned on and put a lot of (fun) effort into.
If you think your baby mama cheated on you - then I don't see why it would be a big deal for you to go behind her back and get the test yourself.
As for mandatory testing - I've said this before and I'll say it again -
1. Who is going to pay for it? I highly doubt insurance companies are going to be willing to foot the bill.
2. The hospital's purpose is to care for the health of it's patients - not the relationship well being of it's patients. Hospitals do not want to get involved in personal matters - those are our responsibility.
3. There are many single mothers or father's who aren't present for the birth of the children - would they be exempt? If they are - then people could just leave the father off the birth certificate in the first place. What are you going to do - chase down every possible match and force him to give a DNA swab? What if it was a one night stand and she doesn't know who the father is? What if it was a sperm donor?
4. Many men won't WANT to give a sample of their DNA and will see it as a violation of their rights.
Once again - this has nothing to do with my personal opinion on the matter - it has to do with logistics. I just don't see how it is possible. If it were mandatory - I could care less. I know my husband is the father of our children. My son looks just like him and I haven't slept with anyone else since my husband and I got together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascension2012
Doing anything behind your partners back is deceptive. Some people are not liars and cheaters, and would rather be upfront about their intentions with their partners. I think its a perfect reason to make it mandatory, either at childs birth or before a child support order is issued. But alas, youll keep arguing with poor logic and selective reasoning until you are blue in the face, simply because you are unable to admit that you may have been wrong. Shocker!
Can you explain to me why my logic is poor? Can you explain why you think I have selective reasoning? I'm not "wrong" about anything. My opinion is that it will never happen because it is simply not possible to enforce and that the majority of people do not want it. I have said before that if it was mandatory - I would not object to it. What my reaction to my OWN husband would be if he had asked for it should have no bearing on what YOU would do in your OWN life.
There is a difference between planning a pregnancy and having a scare with a non-wife. There's also a difference between having a baby with a man you are in a relationship with and having a baby from a man you aren't in a relationship with. In the case of paternity fraud it's completely the woman's fault. He has no say so if she cheats and gets pregnant by another man. Men need to stop being a afraid of getting one because it'll hurt her feelings or because you're afraid of the answer and you'd rather life in blissful ignorance because of what you might do if you find out. I'm not against mandatory paternity tests and for it, but until that day comes I feel men should get one.
There is a difference between planning a pregnancy and having a scare with a non-wife. There's also a difference between having a baby with a man you are in a relationship with and having a baby from a man you aren't in a relationship with. In the case of paternity fraud it's completely the woman's fault. He has no say so if she cheats and gets pregnant by another man. Men need to stop being a afraid of getting one because it'll hurt her feelings or because you're afraid of the answer and you'd rather life in blissful ignorance because of what you might do if you find out. I'm not against mandatory paternity tests and for it, but until that day comes I feel men should get one.
The thing is - until that day comes - the only person you can force to get one is yourself. If other men do not feel the need to get one - that is their decision.
The thing is - until that day comes - the only person you can force to get one is yourself. If other men do not feel the need to get one - that is their decision.
True. It's foolish not too, but then again it's foolish to smoke and have unprotected sex with strangers. If you want to assume they are yours because you're afraid of a female or you want to 'keep the peace' then it's your life to live.
True. It's foolish not too, but then again it's foolish to smoke and have unprotected sex with strangers. If you want to assume they are yours because you're afraid of a female or you want to 'keep the peace' then it's your life to live.
Exactly. All you can control is your own life. I don't worry about what other people do. And in terms of paternity - well, like I said - my husband has never doubted me and he has no reason to. Also, our son looks exactly like baby pictures of my husband - so even if there was a doubt - it would be pretty silly!
The problem that's coming up in this thread is the idea that this kind of deception in normal or common. This is Jerry Springer-level dysfunction. The idea that a woman in a committed relationship who has never cheated nor has ever considered it has to suck up the insult if her husband decides that she's not trustworthy isn't even being addressed. Like Braunwyn mentioned way upthread, if you don't trust someone, don't even sleep with them. Get a vasectomy. Use as many forms of birth control as is humanly possible.
The whole problem of this topic reinforces the reasons why anonymous paternity testing literally exploded. Paternity kits are often in shortage in local drugstores in many towns and counties. Most guys do it for the peace of mind. It's done in secrecy because of attitudes displayed in this topic.
An average profile is not like on Maury Povich's show at all. Close to half paternity kits are bought by women older than 45 y/o. This means that those are probably alleged grandmothers buying kits instead of their sons, rather than the mothers. Men have a share close to half as well of those anonymous tests. it's only logical because a mother has legal options to issue court-ordered testing at the expense of the state and if the alleged father is proven to be the biological father, he is to pay the expenses as well. Men have to pay their whole costs regardless if they prove that they were mistakenly named as parents or not. They also have less legal options due to how the legislation places the power dynamics. They generally cannot take samples of the child without the mother knowing it, thus they opt for anonymous paternity testing and taking the samples without the mother's consent. They break the law to save themselves any further problems. They can send samples anonymously and see the results from the safety of their home.
Average case of court-ordered paternity testing is rather either a single mother that wants to place the father on birth certificate to collect due child support, or the single mother who wants to name the deadbeat father to qualify for some of the government-sponsored benefits that demand the father to be named, or the father who disputes his putative paternity.
An average victim of paternity fraud isn't at odds with the mother at all. Those who are at odds with their wives/girlfriends will generally demand paternity testing regardless if they doubt it or not. They don't need to fear that the woman will be mad at them, that the relationship/marriage will break apart, that the mother will alienate them from their children - that is generally what already happens. A classical paternity fraud victim is completely different case. Paternity fraud is a unique situation where a non-biological father is literally duped to take care of a child that he definitely never would take care of if he knew it wasn't his. This is a no-brainer that a man doesn't want to have his wife bang around with other men and then have them to raise a child that isn't their own. . They are not suspecting of any fraud and even if they asked anything their wives would feel insulted that they even doubt. When those men happen to find out about the fraud, it's generally too late and there are very severe, traumatic, emotional consequences that will last for as long as they live and there's no way to correct them. Very few worse things that can happen to one human being when compared to paternity fraud. Downplaying of paternity fraud just proves what many posters here think of men in general. I think that most men would rather want to be raped than find out that the child isn't their biological child after all the invested years of care, money and energy in general, the emotional consequences will be far more severe. Only one thing is ultimately bigger damage that one can inflict upon other human being - to take their life away by your deliberate choice. And some may argue that various things can be just about the same or even worse in their opinion though.
It's not just economical fraud which is very expensive as well, it's also seriously disturbing emotionally to raise a child that you find out it isn't your own, which is exponentially worse than the cheating itself. You look at the child that is the result of infidelity and that child is tied to you by legislative orders. That child will also inherit share of your property when you die together with your other biological children, or top of the whole lifethat you lived and will live through. Fraud works even if the father dies or kills himself, the intended benefit for mother and her offspring is unquestioned even after victim's death. The guy can end up in jail if he decides to fight by not paying for child support of that child as well, which just adds up to the problem.
Consequences are very severe not just for the guy who raised those children but the children themselves, lots of traumatic experiences.
The guy may even develop an ever-lasting bond with the child, just like a raped mother can develop an ever-asting bond with a child conceived by her rapist if she gives birth, but the child itself will be a walking trauma for her on top of all traumas that (s)he lived through. This is the truth even though a raped woman would have a child which is biologically her own. Not to mention about raising a child that isn't your own and which is a result of paternity fraud. Even though the mother would probably love a child that she raises, regardless of being a rapist's child as well, everyone on this board would not object even a second to a thought about the trauma she faces, because the torment is just incredibly high and she may be reminded of the deed forever and ever each time she looks at the child's face. And while we all would have full compassion towards the mother, the compassion flies out of the window in the case of paternity fraud. Somehow a number of women have the need to devalue it, downplay it, or outright attack the victim of the fraud. You'll never live through it, and you better hope that your sons doesn't live through it.
General conclusion is that this shuold be punished by law, jail penalties. Check out the amount of damages paid by the hospitals who accidentally switch the babies, even though those cases are extremely rare due to all the precautions. Millions of dollars of damages are paid for each individual case on account of emotional damage, family disturbance and having their lives ruined, alienation from their biological child, economic expenses, etc.
But this is illusory to expect with such stances and attitudes in legislation. This is why men MUST opt to be more responsible by themselves. Nobody will feel pity towards them. Everyone will in fact bash them instead. Including the legislation. They should obviously "man up".
When it comes to economic aspect, I'll be blunt. I hired accountant company to manage my company's finances and pay the bills/invoices that I authorize. If they abused their position to steal my money and get caught, they'd not only pay out for all the damages, but they'd end up in prison.
On the other hand, legislation rather rewards the people who conducted paternity frauds either deliberately or because they thought there's a chance that the guy is most probably the father (and keeping mum about the other possibilities), while punishing the victim of the fraud.
Exactly. All you can control is your own life. I don't worry about what other people do. And in terms of paternity - well, like I said - my husband has never doubted me and he has no reason to. Also, our son looks exactly like baby pictures of my husband - so even if there was a doubt - it would be pretty silly!
But would you really leave him if he, hypothetically, asked for one? I mean there a celeb look a likes, but that doesn't mean they aren't related.
Where do the assumptions come from that all women are sleeping around, cheating, taking men for everything, and that all men are pushovers who take it and pay the bill?
Why would a man, who is fully trusting and confident in his relationship be demanding of a paternity test? If he does not possess an ounce of suspicion, he will naturally assume getting such a test would be an utter waste of time and money.
If they don't want the test, then fine! I do not get what the big deal is? Chances are vastly, overwhelingly, that they are the father in these cases anyway.
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