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It's a tough equilibrium. On the one hand, a lot of women want a guy who will "take control" of a situation and lead when it comes to making moves, romance, etc., but either don't give signals, or give what are to most men extremely confusing signals. I think it helps, to me, that I was raised mostly by my mom, have two sisters, and have always had many strictly-platonic female friends.
To most women, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the idea of laying in bed and watching a movie with a female friend. In many cultures, it's still totally acceptable for a woman to hold hands with, go arm-in-arm with, or even cuddle with a female friend - many Asian and Southern European cultures are like this. Even in our own, these behaviors are much, much more acceptable with women than they are with men - when was the last time where you curled up in bed to drink tea and watch movie with one of your bros?
I have had female friends who just really, really wanted me to hold them when they've had a crappy day, or who have wanted to shower in my shower after a long bike ride or run together, or who came over to chat after a long, crappy, or emotionally tumultuous day and just want to take a nap in my bed. These are all girls I have absolutely no deigns on, and who have no deigns on me. I don't read anything more into it, because if I decided to go for their butt while holding them, got in the shower with them, or started kissing them in bed, they'd be shocked. To them, I'm just a friend, and this is just what friends do... to them, I'm their bestest guy friend ever, I'm like their brother (which FTR is one of the worst things a girl you're into can possibly tell you), and I think of them like my sisters.
At the core of it, I operate on a strict "no means no, and until she says yes, assume she means no" credo.
Too bad I have to spread rep around, fantastic post. Found myself nodding majority of the time.
I learned that the hard way. I met someone recently and both times he asked to come over to my apartment, sex was definitely expected. So much that as soon as he walked in he brought me to my bedroom and asked if he needed to wear a condom while taking off his pants.. luckily, he left when I asked (after some convincing.) but it definitely made me realize, us ladies need to be careful. While he was on top of me without his pants grabbing and kissing me while trying to pulling off my clothes the thought of ‘what if he won’t leave or stop?” Did enter my mind and kinda scared me. We need to be careful
WTF, if a date asks to visit my apartment I think she might be down for making out, but sex?
Sometimes I think nowadays if a woman is down for kissing she's down for F-ing. Is this why there are so many teen moms? What happened to courting someone and building up to sex?
I guess I'm a dinosaur...
There have always been a lot of very young moms. In the old days this was why getting married very young was encouraged. Because sex will happen. No matter what, somewhere along the line, sex will happen. And the design was for people to be married before a pregnancy happened. Because people are people and always have been, and sometimes, they get curious and/or overcome by feelings.
What happened to courting and building up...nothing happened to it. It is still there. Except during the times it's not. Just like always. Even centuries ago. Ever read any Chaucer?
As for the apartment thing, I would assume he was hoping for sex and if I were not ready for that, I would suggest something else.
If there's one thing that I've learned in my years of dating, it's that you should never make assumptions about getting laid, because if you're a guy, chances are that you're probably wrong.
1. If a girl wants to come over, it's not necessarily because she wants to have sex.
2. If a you invite a girl over and she says yes, it's not necessarily because she wants to have sex.
3. If you want to go over to a girl's house and she says yes, it's not necessarily because she wants to have sex.
4. If a girl invites you over, it's not necessarily because she wants to have sex.
Bingo. Younger men don't understand this but older men do. Under no circumstances are men to expect sex. Not when you buy her a drink at the bar, not when she dances on at the cub, not when she needs a ride home, not when she gives you a ride home, not when you buy her dinner, not when she comes over, not when you go to her place.
If sex happens, then it happens, but under no circumstances is the man suppose to expect it or even discuss it beforehand. Because then the woman would feel that you only wanted her for sex.
Now if it's boyfriend girlfriend or wife and husband, obviously, you can do whatever you want as long as it's consensual. But if you're not exclusive, do not expect anything.
I learned that the hard way. I met someone recently and both times he asked to come over to my apartment, sex was definitely expected. So much that as soon as he walked in he brought me to my bedroom and asked if he needed to wear a condom while taking off his pants.. luckily, he left when I asked (after some convincing.) but it definitely made me realize, us ladies need to be careful. While he was on top of me without his pants grabbing and kissing me while trying to pulling off my clothes the thought of ‘what if he won’t leave or stop?” Did enter my mind and kinda scared me. We need to be careful
exactly, especially with the whole online thing, where you don't really know them...the last couple of dates I had, which were from out of town, asked if I wanted to go back to my place, or theirs...while before, I would, because I liked going to people's places, it seems more relaxed, you don't have to 'do' anything, like on a "date", like go bowling or order something...but now, after all the previous dating ughs, I'm more cautious and slow, and wouldn't want someone coming over, or vice versa...partly because I don't really want people to know where I live, that I don't know very well, and also if they're there, then it's harder to not do things, if you want to take it slow. and then, if they're from out of town, they seem to push for it more and if I don't have them over, then they don't want to go out again. which is fine, lol, saves me time...and it's not like I want to go back to their place on the first date either. :/
I remember there was this saying about assuming things -- if you assume, you make an "ass" out of "u" and "me".
Which is actually a stupid saying if you think about it, because when someone assumes about someone else and they are wrong, the only person who comes out looking like an ass is them, not the person they made an assumption about.
This is an old thread, just a heads up to those replying to old comments.
As a woman, if a man wants me to have private time in a private place (such as his home) then I assume he wants sex. If he invites me on an occasion when other people are supposed to be there, like a BBQ or party, then I don't assume he's got that agenda in mind. If I got there though, and no one else showed up and he started putting the make on me, I'd be FURIOUS. That is some predatory game playing BS that would not fly with me.
Women are even told nowadays that if they are raped, if they willingly went to a guy's home or hotel room or something, then they asked for it, nearly even that it's implied consent. I don't compromise my ability to say no, if I'm not pretty sure I'm willing to follow through. Even with male friends, it is extremely rare that I'll trust them in a private, one-on-one setting. I think that all women need to be taught growing up to manage boundaries around private interaction when it comes to men. It's really the easiest way to handle it. If I don't want to have sex with a guy, I simply avoid being in a private space with him. I mean, you can simply TELL them you don't want that, but guys don't always listen, and often think they can change our minds somehow.
If I were a man, on the other hand, I would neither assume nor expect that sex would happen just because a private get-together is on the books. I'd maybe hope for it, perhaps consider my odds good, and possibly inquire as to the possibility if the chance presented itself. But I'd still ask, and more significantly (this is what women really want) I'd take any no answer in a graceful way and wouldn't get bent out of shape about it, even if I felt disappointment.
depends, if it is implied to also leave the apartment relatively soon, its more of a make-out session, otherwise getting laid is absolutely the meaning of it, I got pretty pissed last weekend when i spent the night in bed with a girl and she refused to have sex with me, just what the **** did she think I invested the whole evening in her for?
It's insulting and a deliberate waste of my time and good sleep.
I do want to respond to this, mostly because I know this poster is still on the board (at least, as of recently.)
I would, with a shrug in your general direction, counter this with the idea that perhaps she thought that you valued her for more than a chance at getting your plumbing wet. If she were to find out that you were primarily just interested in her for sex, to the extent that it severely annoyed you that you put time in and did not get any, maybe she would believe that YOU wasted HER time. ??
I'm always left feeling that so much of this aggravation between people with different motivations could be spared with better communication...but I know that's often not really how it works, at least with most people.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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I can only recall one time where a woman asked to come up and see my place where she ended up not wanting to F me (she was in a bad head space), but nah, it's not good to assume. It gets you in a weird state of mind. Like football coaches tell RBs going into the endzone... act like you've been there. Don't assume, be cool, be a charming host and the rest shakes out. If it doesn't, no biggie. Who wants to get down with someone who isn't really into getting down with you anyway? That's no fun.
Women are even told nowadays that if they are raped, if they willingly went to a guy's home or hotel room or something, then they asked for it, nearly even that it's implied consent. I don't compromise my ability to say no, if I'm not pretty sure I'm willing to follow through. Even with male friends, it is extremely rare that I'll trust them in a private, one-on-one setting. I think that all women need to be taught growing up to manage boundaries around private interaction when it comes to men. It's really the easiest way to handle it. If I don't want to have sex with a guy, I simply avoid being in a private space with him. I mean, you can simply TELL them you don't want that, but guys don't always listen, and often think they can change our minds somehow.
But when you tell women that today you get accused of "victim blaming." They think they are invincible.
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