Why would you not want to marry and have kids? (girl, gay)

[Yellow Jacket]

Originally Posted by Philosophizer

Starting to think the hatred of humanity is the driving force behind not wanting kids now. If the world is overpopulated, who do you send to slaughter first? My guess is that none of the people who hate others for bringing life into this world will be the first to line up.

If you want go that route then the people who WANT children should go first before they procreate. Then you kill off the ones who don't.

[Braunwyn]

Originally Posted by imokay

It certainly can be...But then again, for a lot of people it isn't.
As you yourself mentioned, what if your kid is born with a mental disease? Or a physical deformity? Or what if they're born perfectly healthy, but things just don't work out for them, emotionally, socially, or financially, and so they fall into depression as they grow old (like millions of people throughout the world)?

The truth is, it's an incredibly big gamble to make, and if things don't work out, both the parents and their kid(s) will suffer. And I think that the vast majority of couples that decide to have kids don't really think about things like these. All they care about is avoiding their pain and emptiness by finding yet another distraction.

I don't think I mentioned anything in this thread, unless I'm having a serious brain fart. Statistically, tho, serious physical and/or mental problems for (sorry about my phone's autocorrect) for educated, somewhat affluent families, are rare. Something to keep in mind is that much of what you note is heritable. It's not an even playing field from one couple to the next, so an across the board position doesn't make much sense. All of this is very personal. You really can't expect other people to live by your fears. Not everyone is going to share them.

It's also important to remember that parents have actually relatively little control over the development of their kids. What really matters are things outside their control (like school, the environment the kid is born into, friends etc.) or consciousness.
There is so much brainwashing out there, so many things that will be with your subconscious until they day you die; being a parent is truly an enormous responsibility, and I believe that very, very few people can actually be good parents.
Most either just surrender to the environment and try to rationalize their mistakes ("s/he's gonna be alright"), or try to isolate their kids from society; both approaches are ultimately detrimental.

I disagree. Nobody can controll everything, but parents have great influence over outcome. This is pretty common knowledge. Parental health (emotional, physical, and mental), intelligence, level of education, SES, and culture play significant roles in development. I agree that many do a poor job of it, but the best and brightest among us should certainly be procreating if they have the desire.

[steelstress]

Originally Posted by Philosophizer

I wonder if some of the posters who vilify those who want and/or have kids feel the same way about their parents for bringing them into this world.

Well there's a spot on my bingo card!

[imokay]

Originally Posted by Philosophizer

Starting to think the hatred of humanity is the driving force behind not wanting kids now.

Hatred of humanity? Not wanting humanity to become extinct or miserable for stupid reasons is hatred?

If the world is overpopulated, who do you send to slaughter first? My guess is that none of the people who hate others for bringing life into this world will be the first to line up.

I, for one, would, as long as it's painless.

But to declare that by coercive force, people should not be allowed to have children makes you just as big of an extremist as the dreaded catholic church for its stance on birth control.

You can't compare a rational, pragmatic stance with one based on something as ridiculous and senseless as religious. There are a lot of things that we do today that would be considered "extremist" in the past, because they're practical.

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

I don't think I mentioned anything in this thread, unless I'm having a serious brain fart.

I was just talking about

For those of you who suffered at the hands of your parents, your environment, and/or your own biochemistry that does suck

but anyway

Statistically, tho, serious physical and/or mental problems for (sorry about my phone's autocorrect) for educated, somewhat affluent families, are rare. Something to keep in mind is that much of what you note is heritable. It's not an even playing field from one couple to the next, so an across the board position doesn't make much sense. All of this is very personal. You really can't expect other people to live by your fears. Not everyone is going to share them.

Just because something is rare statistically, doesn't mean it occurs in few people. There are plenty of people who come from affluent families that have psychological problems such as depression. Money doesn't buy happiness.
And higher income usually means higher education, which can mean higher intelligence, which I think often leads to less happiness (they don't say "ignorance is bliss" for nothing).

So I'm not talking about fears. I'm talking about the very real possibility of bringing into this world (which is pretty messed up per se) someone who will be unhappy for most of their life.

Most people do NOT mull this over. I understand that putting yourself in someone else's shoes, especially when you subconsciously know this might ruin your plans and expected happiness or you yourself have never experienced something like depression, is hard, but it's something that has to be done. Just because YOU are happy doesn't mean your children are going to be.

I disagree. Nobody can controll everything, but parents have great influence over outcome. This is pretty common knowledge. Parental health (emotional, physical, and mental), intelligence, level of education, SES, and culture play significant roles in development. I agree that many do a poor job of it, but the best and brightest among us should certainly be procreating if they have the desire.

I think that, if parents do a bad job, the consequences are often huge and noticeable.
But, on the other hand, doing a good job doesn't guarantee a positive outcome.

Look, I'm not saying the best and the brightest should not be procreating. If anything, I think they should be the only ones who SHOULD be legally able to procreate.
I'm just saying people need to fully understand what they're doing and take full responsibility, not only when things go well, but also if they go wrong.

[Virijat]

Originally Posted by Philosophizer

I wonder if some of the posters who vilify those who want and/or have kids feel the same way about their parents for bringing them into this world.

I absolutely feel the same way about my parents. They shouldn't have had children at all. They're no different because they're my parents.

[Braunwyn]

Originally Posted by imokay

I was just talking about...
but anyway

When addressing folk here I wasn't thinking of anything as extreme deformities. But, I understand what you meant.

Just because something is rare statistically, doesn't mean it occurs in few people. There are plenty of people who come from affluent families that have psychological problems such as depression. Money doesn't buy happiness.

Statistically it does matter. We all base our decisions on stats every day. If you were practically guaranteed to get run over every time you crossed the street you would never cross the street. Since most people manage it sucessfully, even tho some do get run over, we usually decide to cross.

And higher income usually means higher education, which can mean higher intelligence, which I think often leads to less happiness (they don't say "ignorance is bliss" for nothing).

I think people with comprimised intelligence may be more likely to cleave to irrational ideas and though processes that lead to a host of negatives (poor choices and subsequently poor outcomes). But, that's besides the point. Folk inthis SES group are more likely to succeed in most ways. There is lower incidence of crime, incarceration, violence of all sorts, etc. There are better outcomes in that space.

So I'm not talking about fears. I'm talking about the very real possibility of bringing into this world (which is pretty messed up per se) someone who will be unhappy for most of their life.

Your position seems to be based in fear. If not, then where is it derived from? There's a very real possibility to bring a person into this world who is as capable of joy as your person is capable of unhappiness. Again, I don't think these are equal possibilities for all.

Most people do NOT mull this over. I understand that putting yourself in someone else's shoes, especially when you subconsciously know this might ruin your plans and expected happiness or you yourself have never experienced something like depression, is hard, but it's something that has to be done. Just because YOU are happy doesn't mean your children are going to be.

True, although my children have a greater possibility of being happy than I have been. And I don't know what people really ponder when they're deciding to have children. It's not something I can know, so I don't speculate. I do know that my husband is a happy chap. His 5 brothers and sisters are happy people. They are all successful (big success actuall). His mother and father were educated, as was his grandparents (scientists). His lineage is of a certain breed and it's striking. I can see the differences between his family compared to my own (we had turmoil).

Keep your own words in mind. You might no have experience with an overall ill free life, or attempting to check attachments, but that doesn't mean it's to be dismissed by the rest of us. You're doing a lot of assuming and this suggests to me that you may be wrapped up in your issues to the point where you really cannot review the decisions made by others as an unbiased observer.

I think that, if parents do a bad job, the consequences are often huge and noticeable.
But, on the other hand, doing a good job doesn't guarantee a positive outcome.

Look, I'm not saying the best and the brightest should not be procreating. If anything, I think they should be the only ones who SHOULD be legally able to procreate.
I'm just saying people need to fully understand what they're doing and take full responsibility, not only when things go well, but also if they go wrong.

I don't think it's something we can legislate. Not that I disagree with the idea that it's a poor choice to haphazardly bring children into the world. I can see our society applying stipulations to welfare recipients, but I don't see the likes of Gatica in the pipe line.

[imokay]

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

...

I see what you mean.
I still remain of the opinion that parenthood is a huge responsibility, and that everything that can possibly be done to ensure that the child will be able to enjoy life should be considered before making the decision to have children.
I don't think that some people should suffer every day of their lives through no fault of their own just so other people can enjoy their short moments of happiness.
I understand that this cannot be stopped entirely, but we should attempt to minimize it as much as possible.
Therefore, I am of the opinion that most people should not have kids.

I know that restricting birth through legislation is unrealistic, like so many other things that could be done to improve the overall quality of life but which never see the light of day due to the tyranny of the majority and its obsession with "freedom."
It was just what I think should be done, it's not like I expect things to actually get better and humanity not to become extinct in a few centuries.

[julian17033]

Since I had no say in the matter it is a moot issue, however for the sake of argument, the answer is NO, my parents should not have brought me into this world.

Your second question's answer is yes, I do support population control when it comes to rationing our earths resources.

It's absurdity at it's core to believe otherwise.

Originally Posted by Philosophizer

I wonder if some of the posters who vilify those who want and/or have kids feel the same way about their parents for bringing them into this world. I also wonder if they would support legislation limiting the number of children couples could have, if any at all.

[Doll Eyes]

I don't see why it's so hard for others to see everyone does not want that lifestyle. how pompous is that? anyways, I don't want kids because I do not trust any men to stay in the picture and help me with them (since they usually don't anyways). Never had an issue with marriage.

[The Dissenter]

Originally Posted by Philosophizer

If you found the person you couldn't imagine going through life without? Just seems so foreign to me. Is it because some haven't felt that way about anyone they ever dated before? Is it a trust issue? Mommy and daddy issues? If you can see everything the world has to offer in your SO, don't you owe it to the world to bring an awesome kid into it?

Because it is MY choice whether to bring a kid into this world or not. I choose not because I can't stand kids.

I don't think everyone should marry or have kids and I consider myself a prime example. The problem is that society believes is should be everyone's end goal and take away the right to choose an alternative path.

Question. Do you support couples adopting kids and molding them into something awesome? My dad was not an awesome person but that did not stop mom from making me into an awesome person.