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Some women here say if a man is broke he should put his dating life on hold. But on other threads (college student/s not having enough money, etc) "oh you can do things that don't cost much money"
hehehehe
Exactly. Dating doesn't have to cost money. We already covered that in this thread. A man can indicate his interest in other ways. If he doesn't do that (through thoughtful gestures, paying attention to what she's interested in and tailoring dates to her interest, as jillabean said earlier (you seem to have missed that post of hers) for example), she'll naturally conclude they're just hanging out as friends. How would she know otherwise? She's not a mind-reader.
No, just because a guy spends a lot of money doesn't mean he really cares either. It's not a given. Think of it this way. A fair number of women hold out on pet names and words of endearment until they have feelings for a man. If a woman gives you a pet name right away or starts talking lovey dovey on the first date, does that mean she's crazy about you? Not necessarily. And the flip side. If a woman NEVER gives you pet name and never talks to you in terms of endearment, does it mean she's not into you? Probably.
The question was, if a guy never pays, does he not like you that much. Again, I can only go by personal observation since it's an opinion/personal observation question.
I never ran into a guy who dated me more than just a first date who "never" offered to pay. On first dates, the guys who wanted date #2 ALL refused my offer to split the bill. With men who jumped on going dutch or letting me pay the bill... there never was a second date because they weren't interested in date #2 (didn't call me or return my calls). I suppose one day I could meet the man who goes dutch and is eager for date #2, but it hasn't happened to me yet.
So to answer the question, in my experience, if a guy never pays, he's probably not into me.
What? A women is not into a man because she doesn't call me by a pet name?
That's definitely true. I think what's making some of us bristle with the guys who adamantly won't pay for dates is that those particular guys aren't coming across as generous or thoughtful in other ways that would make their dates feel special. It doesn't have to be shelling out big bucks, it could be something like burning her a CD because she expressed an interest in the kind of music he likes or whatever.
This. This is what we're saying. He has to show in some manner that he cares, and that he views her as more than just a buddy.
All the women in my family (except my mom) always made an income. My grandmothers and great-grandmothers always worked. Many from home, some outside the home.
What's your point? Did they still expect the men to be men, or did they try to be their equal?
Exactly. Dating doesn't have to cost money. We already covered that in this thread. A man can indicate his interest in other ways. If he doesn't do that (through thoughtful gestures, paying attention to what she's interested in and tailoring dates to her interest, as jillabean said earlier (you seem to have missed that post of hers) for example), she'll naturally conclude they're just hanging out as friends. How would she know otherwise? She's not a mind-reader.
It’s not about showing a woman that you can pay for things or that you will set her up financially for life. It’s more about showing her that you value her, that she is worthy of being doted on, and that you want to take care of her if she’ll give you the chance. What does she do in turn that she doesn't do for her girlfriends? Dresses up for you, spends time and money waxing, plucking, curling hair to look her best for the man. And she tells you she cares and is enjoying your company, etc.
Maybe it's not fair or 100% equal. But life isn't fair or 100% equal either. Is it fair that later on, women do the bulk of the child care even in households where women work and earn just as much as their husbands? Is it fair that even though they work women are usually still expected to keep house and that people judge the woman if the house isn't clean? Is it fair that a woman's "worth" is often attributed to her age? Is it fair that birth control is usually assumed to be the woman's problem and if it fails it's the woman's fault? Is it fair that men can generally sleep around and have more sex partners, but women who do the same are shamed? No, but that's life, some things just aren't fair and equal--they are more fair and equal than they used to be, but it's not equal yet. And yes, there are lots of things that are unfair to men to, but the subject here is when it comes to the early stages of dating, it's society's expectation of men (and it's both other men as well as women who expect this... there are plenty of guys out there who do pay for the date).
All this philosophical back and forth about WHO should pay is dandy. But again, it's not the subject... that's another thread. The subject is, if a man makes as much or more than you and never offers to "Treat" you to a date, does that mean he's not really interested in you? I still content the fact remains (at least with me and in my personal experience) that every man I dated who wanted to ask me on a second always paid and turned down my offer to split the bill or for me to pay the entire bill.
So from my point of view and from my experience of the way men treat me, if the man is interested he pays. That doesn't mean I "won't" go out with a guy who asks to go dutch. I am just saying that no guy who has ever gone dutch or let me pay has wanted to go out with me again. I think they realize this early in the date and that's why they jump on going dutch... to cut their losses. And hey, that's a good thing in my book--so no one feels "used." but the guy that feels I am special enough to ask out again... well, he does something special for me. And if we stick together, yeah, sure, you bet I am going to be doing special things for him in the relationship.
But why does that equate to money? So do men value or hold in high regard prostitutes and strippers since they spend money on them as well?
No, even the "independant" career " I don't need a man" women still expect the men to ask women out and to pay for everything because that's what a "man" or "gentlemen". So even when woman are "working" women they sill fall back on traditional gender roles.
Yes. Women like to be wooed, and like to see interest in the man they're dating. We're just wired that way.
Like many others have said, at the beginning, the quickest way for a man to show interest is to invite a woman out in order to learn about her--which takes the form of dating. So if he's not willing to pay for a few dates, that indicates that he's not really into her.
After the two have gotten to know each other better, most women will pitch in to help with dating expenses.
If you resent having to pay for a couple of dates, you don't HAVE to do it. Just stop dating.
So, if I don't shower her with pedals and free meals I'm just a buddy? Interesting how women think about money and dates, Lol
It is more like care and (paying) attention. Just make us feel special via words and actions and we will get it. But if you treat us like one of your bros, that is what we will assume the relationship is.
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