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If he only carries them around "when he's all upset and angry and nasty", what do you think he will do when his delusional bubble bursts? Meaning when he is faced with the reality that you no longer want to be a part of his life as a wife/partner/lover. What do you think he will do with his guns then?
Excellent! Always document when it's important to do so.
I appreciate what you're saying, but one cannot make assumptions about what a person will do...is the guns + crazy = unacceptable? YES. Does that make him a murderer? NO. He's been working on emotional control, calm, and thinking things through before reacting. He's been much more rational.
We have a plan in place, which he is coming to terms with fairly well, that I am going to hang around for 2 more months, do the counseling, and see how things go. If I still want my own apartment (for me it's when, in his mind it's if) then I will do that then. From my perspective, this time is a trial period to make sure he is sane enough and in control enough to leave the kids safely with him. For him it's a time to see if we can change and evolve enough to find love in our marriage again. (I already know...we can't. I can't.) It takes him time to absorb and accept new information and terms in this situation, but under the circumstances and given where we were a couple of weeks ago, I'm thrilled with our progress.
I am still keeping "Plan B" clear in my mind, because if he goes all scary-man on me again, I will have to take the more drastic road. I hate that option, but I'll do it if I have to, for my safety and that of my kids.
I would just much rather that we ALL come out ok. That is looking more possible now.
EDIT: Another huge benefit to the 2 month thing is that I have found the perfect place I want very badly to live, location, quality, price...it's PERFECT. It's so perfect it's got a waiting list, a "call list" for when vacancies come up. The lady told me that usually she calls everyone on the list once a month, and those who don't respond or have found other arrangements get dropped off the list, and it's usually about half of them...so there is hope, but it might take time. Like maybe a couple months...I'm not putting all of my eggs in that basket, but it's one of those, "if I'm patient, the stars might just align..."
Do you think he is behaving more rational because of this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
(for me it's when, in his mind it's if)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
For him it's a time to see if we can change and evolve enough to find love in our marriage again.
I am not intending to sound pessimistic...so please don't take it as such. I am only basing my thoughts off of all that you have posted about him. The pattern is that he goes gun carrying berserk when he thinks you are bailing on him or wanting your space leading to the end of the marriage. This is a well established pattern. It is also a well established pattern that when he believes that there is a chance for all of this to go away and start brand new...that he behaves more rationally.
Based on these behavioral patterns, no matter how much time you wait around for him to work through his delusional thoughts of starting over, he's going to crash the moment he faces the facts of...(for me it's when) and (I already know...we can't. I can't.).
The only reason he is behaving more rationally is because you are nursing his delusion by giving him hope that things can be worked out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
EDIT: Another huge benefit to the 2 month thing is that I have found the perfect place I want very badly to live, location, quality, price...it's PERFECT. It's so perfect it's got a waiting list, a "call list" for when vacancies come up. The lady told me that usually she calls everyone on the list once a month, and those who don't respond or have found other arrangements get dropped off the list, and it's usually about half of them...so there is hope, but it might take time. Like maybe a couple months...I'm not putting all of my eggs in that basket, but it's one of those, "if I'm patient, the stars might just align..."
This is great! I just hope when you do move out that he has sanely accepted it and allows you the freedom you deserve.
Stay strong and keep a clear mind and focus on what you need to do to get out of that dysfunctional lifestyle with him.
Please -- leave. Leave now. Take the kids. Move in with your parents, move in with a friend. There is no "nice" way out of this marriage. You are NOT responsible for his mental health -- he is, and he's not doing anything to fix it. You're at rock bottom. He's depressed and self-medicating -- AND he's waving a gun around. NOT a good combination. He's hoping that marriage counseling will change YOU, not him. He has no plans to change.
Yes, it IS that easy to walk, regardless of your misgivings. Why waste years more on a loveless and unfullfilling marriage? "For better or worse" doesn't include putting yourself in the way of physical harm or death. I can sympathize with the desire to make it work -- but honey, that train left the station a long, long time ago. And this is from a woman who has been married for 33 years, and is a strong supporter of "make it work." In my book, waving a gun around and threatening physical harm to you or himself is a deal-breaker.
See a lawyer, and plan your departure. You'll need to get your financial ducks in a row, and find out exactly what your rights are. Make a plan, and do it. Your kids will not be surprised, trust me. What you are describing is so far from "normal" that you can be sure that they are wondering why you guys are still together.
Yes, I actually would feel safe leaving my kids with him.
1. He's actually a much better Dad than he is a husband.
2. The boys are teenagers, and have developed quite a bit of independence and resourcefulness.
3. The boys are not hesitant to text for backup when needed. I mentioned that our friend Phoenix came over and took the boys from the house at the peak of our fighting over a week ago right? I found out later it's because one of my kids texted him.
4. We have a big support network.
5. We have safe places the kids know they could walk to, if they (for some reason) couldn't text.
6. I would still be nearby, too.
7. Husband never just snaps and blows up without building up with a whole bunch of dramatical behavior...and these instances aren't frequent.
Nevermind. I am done here. I feel really sorry for your kids, though. They don't deserve either of you as parents.
Based on these behavioral patterns, no matter how much time you wait around for him to work through his delusional thoughts of starting over, he's going to crash the moment he faces the facts of...(for me it's when) and (I already know...we can't. I can't.).
The only reason he is behaving more rationally is because you are nursing his delusion by giving him hope that things can be worked out.
I agree with this. PLEASE take note of this, OP. Based on my experiences, he will be on his best behavior over the next two months with the goal of keeping the marriage together. Then when you do leave, OP, his reaction may not be manageable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora
Stay strong and keep a clear mind and focus on what you need to do to get out of that dysfunctional lifestyle with him.
I am also sorry, that there are some here who do not understand that grabbing the kids and running for the hills, a move that would require me to most likely give up the only job where I can make this kind of money, go out of state, to my very dysfunctional parents, or more likely to a local shelter of some kind, putting my kids into homelessness, and then having the authorities go after my husband, which would VERY likely result in his death as well as that of any armed cops that showed up at the house... I could set spark to THAT fuse with the whole "RUN! GET OUT NOW!"
Or...
I can TRY to resolve this in a manner where everyone comes out OK.
He is not waving the gun around anymore. Guns were out a grand total of 3 times in the last year, and not at all before that. It has been made flagrantly clear to him, that if he does that again, I will move to take everything. I will let the laywers and the courts run the show, does he make me an enemy, and he will lose.
Every time I bring up another point of the whole "I'm leaving" subject, I take a metaphorical step away from him, he clutches tight with anxiety for a moment...and then relaxes and lets me take the step. We have a process going on here. The weave of his desperation and denial is slowly unravelling. I'm watching it every single day.
My kids love their father. He is very rarely a ranting, raving lunatic...and the boys believe that when he is, it's because I hurt him. And that is true. He just doesn't manage his own emotions well, and it's something he is having to learn. I told him today that we grew a lot together in those 18 years...but now we are stunting one another. I told him, "You need to learn to manage yourself. Your emotions, your mental states, even your finances, without a Mommy there doing it for you. I need to learn the lesson of giving myself as much care as I give others. I don't need to buy friends, lovers, husbands, etc with extravagant gestures, gifts, caregiving, or solving all of their problems. What I need is to quit smoking, eat healthy, exercise and go to college. I need to put this experiment (myself) in a clean room...which is why I'm leaving." He understood that, he said that me putting it that way helped him understand in a way he has not thus far.
And dblackga, I promise I'm not wasting years to come with this man...the remainder of my time under that roof can be measured in weeks.
I'll keep you guys updated. If he does kill me, you can all be smug about it, those who are so sorry for my kids for their parents (even though they are a couple of the most awesome and well adjusted kids I've ever known, I'm sure the People of the Internet know better)...and think he's just like every other bad man you've heard of or known. I have never met another man like my husband. Not a bad thing probably, not sure the world could handle two of him. But he's a human with problems who needs to evolve himself, accept boundaries, and such...he is not a monster. I'm not ready to wish death or imprisonment on him, and the loss of all he loves. Bad enough he's losing the woman he believes is the love of his life. And he is. He really is. I'm doing this, for myself. And I really do think we are all gonna be alright. I know that doesn't make thrilling reading, but I hope and believe it's true.
Sonic, you say he is a good father. How is he with discipline, helping with homework, delegating chores, keeping up with appointments, making sure the boys eat, shower, and brush their teeth ... stuff like that? You are planning to give him primary custody, so most of the grunt work will be up to him. Is your husband up for that, or is this an area you have to micromanage as well?
I told him, "You need to learn to manage yourself. Your emotions, your mental states, even your finances, without a Mommy there doing it for you. I need to learn the lesson of giving myself as much care as I give others. I don't need to buy friends, lovers, husbands, etc with extravagant gestures, gifts, caregiving, or solving all of their problems. What I need is to quit smoking, eat healthy, exercise and go to college. I need to put this experiment (myself) in a clean room...which is why I'm leaving." He understood that, he said that me putting it that way helped him understand in a way he has not thus far.
As long as you are saying things like this to him, your plan may work.
The way you had written it before sounded like you were "playing along" with his plan while maintaining a separate plan in your mind that you were going to spring on him in 2 months.
Honesty is important, but it's also painful sometimes, which is why a lot of people avoid it.
Sonic, you say he is a good father. How is he with discipline, helping with homework, delegating chores, keeping up with appointments, making sure the boys eat, shower, and brush their teeth ... stuff like that? You are planning to give him primary custody, so most of the grunt work will be up to him. Is your husband up for that, or is this an area you have to micromanage as well?
He's been doing an amazing job with all of this stuff. I've been...working. At work. Long hours, long commute. He's been the parent. They come to me when they need money because I tend to have cash in my wallet...they go to him with everything else. And since he's been out of the Army and maintaining their grades and stuff, they went from failing classes to A's and B's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmsn4Life
As long as you are saying things like this to him, your plan may work.
The way you had written it before sounded like you were "playing along" with his plan while maintaining a separate plan in your mind that you were going to spring on him in 2 months.
Honesty is important, but it's also painful sometimes, which is why a lot of people avoid it.
Yes. More and more, I am being honest. At first I tried to be gentle...it came off as wishy-washy and didn't get the point across. Then I dropped a bomb of brutal truth on him and he reacted badly. Since then I've made the point that the reason I'm not more forthcoming and communicative is that he either doesn't listen, or he reacts explosively, which I can't and won't deal with again. And while there are times where he stops me, because he has to work on absorbing and processing what he has been told, he is being more self aware, more self controlled, and altogether more reasonable and calm, in the last...what...week? Ish? It's a process. It seems to be getting better all the time.
Mind you. My guard is NOT down. I'm just letting myself tentatively hope this is going to work.
If that makes sense?
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