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It's weird. I was with my ex for 7 years and I knew she didn't really want kids and it didn't really bother me one way or another (I suppose I could take or leave kids at that point).
Now I'm married (obviously to someone else) and I have 2 kids and I think I must've been a true doofus because having kids is the best thing and the most fun I've ever had.
Then again, I think my subconscious knew I had to break up with her bc one thing I said to myself (and others) regarding her flakiness and irresponsibility was how I could never feel comfortable raising kids with her.
My ex was also a person who absolutely never should have raised kids, and it was also something I knew with growing certainty in myself in our last years together...not due to flakiness or irresponsibility at all, but for other reasons that he simply wasn't equipped.
When we met, we both verbalized that we were in the "We want kids...someday" camp. Five years later, I was still in the "I want kids...someday" camp, but it was beginning to become very apparent that he wasn't, but also wasn't being upfront about it. I don't think he forced the issue, because I wasn't forcing the issue, either. If I'd been in a "clock is ticking" frame of mind, he may have come clean. But, really, he didn't need to. I was already starting to see the signs that parenting with him wouldn't ever be a good thing, or realistic. And even though it still wasn't on my immediate radar to have kids, I should still have heeded that gut warning myself, and been the one to end things. As it was, things ended and that wasn't a factor, but, really, I should have addressed the incompatibility as soon as I started to intuit it. But I think I was trying to talk myself out of what I knew I was seeing and brush it off.
I see lots of tangents. I want to focus on the area that Tasha is trying to work through here.
This man is very sure that he does not want to have kids. DO. NOT. go into this thinking you can talk him out of a vasectomy and maybe he'd be happier if he had a kid but he just doesn't know it yet, and perhaps there could be some flexibility. I won't mince words. That is manipulative.
Accept what he says. He does not want to become a father. Respect that. You don't get to make that kind of a choice for another person.
So you need to check in with some things, with your heart, and get a handle on what is very important to you and what isn't.
How hard has it been, in your life, to find love? For me it was easy to find people to date or have sex with, even to form a relationship with, but it was NOT easy (at all!) to find a partner where we both felt love for each other to a high degree at the same time. Knowing that, I'm thrilled with the man I have. Is this man that kind of special to you? Are you truly in love with him? Is he truly in love with you? And in general do other things look good on paper for a long term relationship? Like no one is an addict or a user, you have similar values in general, there are no hardcore disconnects that are going to become untenable?
Because right now, I'm getting UNCERTAINTY on the children issue. Like you might be able to be happy not having them, but you'd sort of thought you would one day, and you're trying to work out if you can live life with that completely off the table. Well, do you love him enough to sacrifice the possibility of motherhood? Or do you love the idea of motherhood enough to sacrifice him? That's what it sorta comes down to. A real relationship with a man in front of you...or a life choice that carries risk, it may or may not go as you would like.
It sounds like you've nearly made up your mind, but you want some affirming nudges that it will work out and be ok. Well, you know you better than we do. Do you think you will be resentful one day when you're past the point of fertility and did not have children of your own? Or can you imagine looking at this man, ten, fifteen, twenty years from now, and saying, "It was worth it. He was worth it."...? But of course, in terms of weighing risk, even another day of life on earth is not a guarantee for either one of you, or for anyone. You say he is older...can you be at peace with losing him one day and not having children in your life either? (I say this as a woman with a partner 20 years older than me, and kids on the brink of moving out, I expect to live alone one day, but I'm ok with that.)
Another question for you...if you love children, do you have extended family, where you could become involved in the lives of other people's children? Like do you have nieces or nephews? And if not, could you perhaps become involved in some kind of an organization where you get to read to or mentor other people's children? My Great Aunt never had her own kids, but she took me in for about a year when I was a teenager, and we became very close. She also admired the son of one of her friends, and decided to pay for his entire college education, just because she thought he was smart and a good kid and she wanted to do it. Sometimes the child-free can still be hugely beneficial influences in the lives of young people, if they so choose. Would that sort of thing fulfill you, or does it have to be giving birth and raising your OWN kid?
Location: As of 2022….back to SoCal. OC this time!
9,297 posts, read 4,583,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasel
But why don't you want to do it? You've made a big deal out of making sure everyone knows you are "doing all this on your own." Taking care of your own housing affairs would be in that category. It seems to go against what you say you're "about."
And how could HE get the fee reduced? Does he have some connection to the owner of this apartment complex?
He would be better at it....& he offered to help. It's not because I need to do "everything on my own".......or prove anything other than I needed to be sure I could support myself & live independently with the high cost of living here, if things didn't work out with him. Wanting to date him or wanting to move in with him are worlds away from finding myself *stuck* dating him or *stuck* living with him because I couldn't afford the area & didn't know anyone else yet.......I have put all of those things to rest. I can support myself in the Bay Area easily because I've been doing it on my salary & paying all of my living expenses.
I have *not* made a big deal out of everyone knowing it.......everyone has poked & prodded & asked about it. I only made a big deal out of it for myself......because I was being smart about it & did not want to ever find myself in a stuck situation in a new city with a very high cost of living....depending on a man or a relationship that did not work out. There are lots of women that find themselves in those shoes. I wasn't going to be one of them. It's *nothing* more than that.......
That's why I am taking his decision very seriously too.......you can't change people.
But why don't you want to do it? You've made a big deal out of making sure everyone knows you are "doing all this on your own." Taking care of your own housing affairs would be in that category. It seems to go against what you say you're "about."
And how could HE get the fee reduced? Does he have some connection to the owner of this apartment complex?
Based on information offered in this thread, I am assuming he is an attorney.
Location: As of 2022….back to SoCal. OC this time!
9,297 posts, read 4,583,293 times
Reputation: 7613
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa
My ex was also a person who absolutely never should have raised kids, and it was also something I knew with growing certainty in myself in our last years together...not due to flakiness or irresponsibility at all, but for other reasons that he simply wasn't equipped.
When we met, we both verbalized that we were in the "We want kids...someday" camp. Five years later, I was still in the "I want kids...someday" camp, but it was beginning to become very apparent that he wasn't, but also wasn't being upfront about it. I don't think he forced the issue, because I wasn't forcing the issue, either. If I'd been in a "clock is ticking" frame of mind, he may have come clean. But, really, he didn't need to. I was already starting to see the signs that parenting with him wouldn't ever be a good thing, or realistic. And even though it still wasn't on my immediate radar to have kids, I should still have heeded that gut warning myself, and been the one to end things. As it was, things ended and that wasn't a factor, but, really, I should have addressed the incompatibility as soon as I started to intuit it. But I think I was trying to talk myself out of what I knew I was seeing and brush it off.
You bring up a good point.......because many guys can say or act like they would have kids in the future & then time passes or things change. Or maybe they never intended but said it anyway. He's being honest with me......where he sees our relationship going & the picture does not involve babies in 3 to 5 yrs because of his age. I love him even more for the honesty & giving me the chance to put the decision in my own hands instead of just telling me....sure sure I want kids in the future & then not doing it. There are lots of men who wouldn't be honest IMO.
Why not? I have a lease I need to get out of if we are going to move in together........
Because it has nothing to do with this thread or this particular topic really. You're just opening yourself up to scrutiny and judgement. Also it contradicts what you claim you stand for. If you don't want "strangers" to speculate about your life (people you also seem to need reassurance from for your feelings) don't put out details that could open you up to "judgement."
You bring up a good point.......because many guys can say or act like they would have kids in the future & then time passes or things change. Or maybe they never intended but said it anyway.
And women can, as well.
Furthermore, my ex may have interpreted my "I definitely want kids...but not right now" stance as, "Well, maybe we'll just end up passing the point where that's going to happen, since she doesn't want them right now (I was 30 when we began our relationship, 31-ish when we moved in together), and it'll work itself out." I don't know. It seems possible that he interpreted my sentiments as he wanted to, versus reality.
Quote:
He's being honest with me......where he sees our relationship going & the picture does not involve babies in 3 to 5 yrs because of his age.
He may well be being honest with you. It isn't always a given that people are holding back, lying to themselves, not facing truths. Some are very forthcoming. I know this, having married somebody like this after years with someone who was not entirely honest. There are all types.
So let's say he's completely honest, here. As others have smartly noted, knowing this, you basically need to be certain, if you're going to invest in time with him, that you are a-ok with categorically not having children, not just now, but in the future.
It doesn't sound like you're personally there, yet.
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