Is Bisexual an Issue? (male, kids, divorced, affair)

[Hankrigby]

Originally Posted by Mielinacea

I’d rather fold and lick myself before I date a bisexual man

Yeah this is quite common. I think it's because men and women alike see... How to put this... Being penetrated by a penis as submissive or feminine.

And effeminate men in general are not desired by women I can't tell you how many times I've had a woman ask me if I thought her boyfriend was gay because of some obscure behavior they feel is too feminine for a guy.

[Hankrigby]

Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork

Yeah, again it's this misconception that a bi person goes around craving two different types of um...anatomy, all the time. That's not been how it is with most bi people I have ever known.

I think this concept comes from an insecurity non bi people have. They feel they'll never be enough to satisfy their partner. That's why I think gay men are opposed to dating bi men.

I think straight women are opposed to dating bi men because having sex with a man is seen as effeminate or non masculine.

[Sonic_Spork]

Originally Posted by Hankrigby

I think this concept comes from an insecurity non bi people have. They feel they'll never be enough to satisfy their partner. That's why I think gay men are opposed to dating bi men.

I think straight women are opposed to dating bi men because having sex with a man is seen as effeminate or non masculine.

I don't actually think that it's just that. Like there's a lot of valid historical ground for bad things happening in some of these situations, and particularly if someone does not know another person really well, doesn't know how they operate, maybe doesn't even know a whole lot of bi people or whatever... The bad stories can stand out as red flag concerns.

What I mean...

- Historically before the middle of last century, there was a very long time period in Euro-centric culture where most people didn't really get all up about "identity" as it pertains to sexual orientation. Those we would now consider to be gay or lesbian, had "dear friends" of the same sex but any sexual behavior was kept discreet and hidden. There were countless situations where they married someone of the opposite sex because it was expected and perhaps even necessary for inheritance reasons or practical reasons, but then they had no passion or warmth in those marriages. That was a whole thing for hundreds of years. Our modern perception of gay and bi people is relatively new.

- Even in our lifetimes, I've known people (often men) who got married and tried to force themselves to just be straight. Social and family pressure, fear of the hardships of life as a gay man when society was against it, a lot of people thought they were doing the right thing just trying to mind over matter the whole situation and deny their sexuality. I've also known a number of men who were trans but hid and denied it for a long time, married, had families, etc. But one day as they get older they start to ask themselves if they really want to live a lie for the whole of their lives. Sometimes the answer is no. Sadly though, when that happens, it tends to demolish the family structure, leaving a wife and kids blindsided and hurt that they were all operating in a deception for all those years. I have now known two married trans men who were all upset that their wives would not just let them transition and be happy now being married to a woman...but one cannot simply demand that someone become a lesbian for them, when the person they fell in love with fully presented to them as a MAN when they met and for years after. I've never seen it work out.

- Then there is the whole AIDS epidemic, which ravaged the LGBTQ+ community unchecked for years and most adults remember this. Gay men were at the highest risk and died at the highest rates.

- Rigid gender roles were propagandized in media through a big portion of the 20th century and in many areas still today. The enforcement of over the top masculine expression for men and the mocking of femininity in men is still out there but not like it was...sometimes I revisit some of the music, shows or movies I loved from my childhood in the 80s and I'm like "oh my god..." But historical depictions are not always accurate and historians will tell you that this really ramped up during the cold war and communism scares. And yet, we did have other portrayals. We've had these wonderful, subversive artists like Bowie and Prince, who defied masculine gender norms in the absolute sexiest of ways.

- Some women might fear that a man who also likes or wants sex with other men, will just be really into certain acts, and at least one (the obvious) is far more pleasurable for a man to receive than for a woman, due to anatomical facts...and can be very painful if not done very carefully. All it takes is one highly painful experience to make a woman fear a man wanting or expecting that from her.

- Some women might also fear that due to said anatomical facts, the man who has been with men or would be open to doing so, can't be satisfied by having the kind of sex that she enjoys, and will always be unfulfilled. No one wants to be thought of as an inadequate, even if acceptable, bedpartner.

Flipside to those last things being that (ironically) most straight men believe that what they bring to the table sexually/anatomically is irreplaceable to a woman by another woman. I say, ironically, because studies show that the people having the least amount of O's during sex are straight women. Women have much more satisfying sex with other women, statistically, than we do with men.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork

Flipside to those last things being that (ironically) most straight men believe that what they bring to the table sexually/anatomically is irreplaceable to a woman by another woman.

Yes, and there is still quite a few people that believe without the presence and use of that male anatomical feature, there is no "real sex". It's both a sexist and heterosexist viewpoint, and male centric, for rather obvious reasons. I was challenged on this in my 20s. I kind of had that view, and someone wiser than me pointed out if I didn't think women being with women was actually sex, then a gold star lesbian in a relationship was still a virgin. A ridiculous concept, of course. Shut me right down.

[Euskalherria]

Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork

- Some women might fear that a man who also likes or wants sex with other men, will just be really into certain acts, and at least one (the obvious) is far more pleasurable for a man to receive than for a woman, due to anatomical facts...and can be very painful if not done very carefully. All it takes is one highly painful experience to make a woman fear a man wanting or expecting that from her.

- Some women might also fear that due to said anatomical facts, the man who has been with men or would be open to doing so, can't be satisfied by having the kind of sex that she enjoys, and will always be unfulfilled. No one wants to be thought of as an inadequate, even if acceptable, bedpartner.

Women's fears about this are understandable and even expected. This is why people need to communicate OPENLY about it and refrain from making assumptions. Not good to assume and therefore 'speak' for a potential partner; rather, allow the person to use their voice instead.

My partner and I had that convo long ago at the beginning and because of the open and frank communication, all is well in that regard. That certainly would not be the case if assumptions were thrown into the mix.

BTW, 'the obvious'??? Never have - and never will do that... with ANYONE. So, while it is an understandable assumption, it isn't 100% valid. Hence the need for open communication.

[shelato]

Originally Posted by Hankrigby

I'm going to have to take the opposing opinion I think the male sexuality is more fluid.

I know you are married now, but when you were a single gay man were you approached more by out of the closet gay men or by nominally straight in the closet bisexual men?

Bisexual men can successful pass for straight if they want to, so it is tought for people who don't have sex with men to have a good estimate for how many bisexual men there really are.

Originally Posted by Hankrigby

I find gay men a lot more open and even enthusiastic about a trans man straight men much more open about a trans woman even if they haven't had the bottom surgeries.

Interesting. Is gender expression more important than genitalia? I know you were saying you were a 6 on the Kinsey scale but could you see yourself being attracted to a transman who hadn't had bottom surgery?

Originally Posted by Hankrigby

I think this concept comes from an insecurity non bi people have. They feel they'll never be enough to satisfy their partner. That's why I think gay men are opposed to dating bi men.

I think straight women are opposed to dating bi men because having sex with a man is seen as effeminate or non masculine.

From the women I have talked to, the two most common reasons women have offered as to why they wouldn't date men are disgust (and women have much higher baseline levels of disgust as well as watching a lot less porn).

The other frequently mentioned concern was that the bi man wasn't bi at all and was gay and that they were really being set up to be a gay man's beard.

[gentlearts]

I would not have a relationship with a bisexual male. I’m female, and it seems to me any bisexual man is actually gay, and I’m not going there.

[Sonic_Spork]

Originally Posted by Euskalherria

Women's fears about this are understandable and even expected. This is why people need to communicate OPENLY about it and refrain from making assumptions. Not good to assume and therefore 'speak' for a potential partner; rather, allow the person to use their voice instead.

My partner and I had that convo long ago at the beginning and because of the open and frank communication, all is well in that regard. That certainly would not be the case if assumptions were thrown into the mix.

BTW, 'the obvious'??? Never have - and never will do that... with ANYONE. So, while it is an understandable assumption, it isn't 100% valid. Hence the need for open communication.

I totally agree!

I also think that it's worth mentioning that a lot of these conversations happen in this weird hypothetical, rhetorical kind of a space.

So all of the women for instance who showed up here and said, "no way!" that they'd never date a bi man... They are not in an actual situation where they knew someone, were really attracted to them, into them, enjoying getting to know them, starting to have some of the ol' sparky sparky cravings for them...and then found out that they were bi, and telling us, "I noped out immediately!" No, rather, they are just speaking from a place of IMAGINATION. Guy X, who they have never met, and may never meet (I mean, how many women here, show of hands, have never actually met a bi man that they knew of, in person? Probably a lot) is just a cardboard cutout, a figure in the mind.

Not someone they know.
Not someone they may already feel some way about.
Just an abstract idea.

OK, well it's pretty easy to say no to an abstract idea. And if we are asked to give opinions on what we ~think~ our reactions would be...very, very easy for a lot of preconceived assumptions and baggage to take the wheel.

Why not? It's not as though we can communicate, have a conversation, with non-existent imaginary Bi Guy X, of the Land of Scenario.

So that's where I'm like, OK...I get it. And yeah, I'm very glad that you and your partner had the communication skills and you talked about these things, and agree, that's the best way to go about it!

I mean, none of this would be an issue for me because I have actually dated bi men in the past, don't have any issue with it, just...doesn't bug me. Can be kinda hot, even, imo. But I'm familiar with the basis for opinions unlike my own.

[tamajane]

Originally Posted by gentlearts

I would not have a relationship with a bisexual male. I’m female, and it seems to me any bisexual man is actually gay, and I’m not going there.

If he's truly sexually attracted to women he's not gay.

I'm not sure why the reason can't just be that that a person wants a partner with the same sexuality - hetero or homosexual. Bisexuals can date each other.

I don't appreciate being lied to, and have been by people pretending to be straight. Not boyfriends, but girl friends who weren't kidding with their "lesbian" jokes. More like they were testing the waters. Straight girls can see each other naked or be touchy and affectionate without it being weird. Both these women got married to men, and one has had many male partners and is still looking for Mr. Right, but also likes women so they are bi.

[Just One of the Guys]

If I were single and were to ever meet up with a woman who was bisexual, it wouldn't be a problem for me. It just meant one more thing we both have in common, we both would like women. :-)