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this whole thing with the story of jacob is exactly what i was talking about. instead of agreeing on what the verse says it doesn't make sense and causes conflict. can you imagine if the bible were to be re-written if all were lost...
someone would literally repeat the chapter in genesis that talks about jacob wresting/struggling/striving with an angel/a man/god and it ultimately would not make sense and confuse people.
the reason ths is so confusing is because if you read the entire passage instead of just breaking it up and chopping it to bits and pieces it really doesn't make sense... lets even look at the verse right before this "wresting took place" and we'll see why the topic of this forum is "how can you change gods word"
genesis 32:22
New International Version - "That night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two maidservants and his eleven sons and crossed the ford of the Jabbok."
New Living Translation - "During the night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two servant wives, and his eleven sons and crossed the Jabbok River with them."
English Standard Version - "The same night he arose and took his two wives, his two female servants, and his eleven children, and crossed the ford of the Jabbok."
New American Standard Bible - "Now he arose that same night and took his two wives and his two maids and his eleven children, and crossed the ford of the Jabbok."
Gods Word Translation - "During that night he got up and gathered his two wives, his two slaves and his eleven children and crossed at the shallow part of the Jabbok River."
King James Bible - "And he rose up that night, and took his two wives, and his two womenservants, and his eleven sons, and passed over the ford Jabbok."
American Standard Version - "And he rose up that night, and took his two wives, and his two handmaids, and his eleven children, and passed over the ford of the Jabbok."
so which one is authentic? handmaids? women servants? slaves? maids? female servants? maidservants? servant wives?
it doesnt really matter some will say... but if its gods words getting changed around more than even once i think its a big problem and doesnt really prove "authentic"
but the whole story about jacob is that it says he wrestled god (Genesis 32:24) and that man after i guess being defeated says that he has god and with men and have won (Genesis 32:28) then Jacob says himself that he saw God face to face (Genesis 32:30). Some say that this was not a man or God and that it was in fact an angel that wrestled with him, however if it were an angel or even a man why would the man say that he wrestled God and won? why would Jacob say he saw God face to face? Was this angel part of the Trinity?
well matthew 23:19 Says that God is not a man... then again if Jacob says he saw God how is this possible if No man hath seen God at anytime (John 1:18 and John 4:12)? although it may have been an angel right? if in fact god is not the aurthor of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33) then why is just this story alone so confusing?
the thing that lead me away from christianity is the fact that someone may give u a "theory" or try and explain this to you, but it can't be proven. all you need to do is read the verses and see for yourself it doesn't make sense.
thank goodness we still have all the bibles because if we didn't and someone tried to re-write the bible can you imagine all the confusion?
this whole thing with the story of jacob is exactly what i was talking about. instead of agreeing on what the verse says it doesn't make sense and causes conflict. can you imagine if the bible were to be re-written if all were lost...
sukrill, you keep making the same error: what you have cited are multiple translations of the Christian versions of the Jewish Bible, but not the Jewish translation of the Jewish Bible.
Why are you so reluctant to try the authentic original?
sukrill, you keep making the same error: what you have cited are multiple translations of the Christian versions of the Jewish Bible, but not the Jewish translation of the Jewish Bible.
Why are you so reluctant to try the authentic original?
because, Greenspan, everyone here is discussing the Christian Bible....
also how am i to know that the "Jewish Bible" is even authentic? how can this be proven?
The OLDEST COMPLETE COMPILATION OF THE OLD TESTAMENT is in whats known as the Codex Sinaiticus. ANYTHING before that is just bits and fragments.
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13,621 posts, read 12,731,507 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill
this whole thing with the story of jacob is exactly what i was talking about. instead of agreeing on what the verse says it doesn't make sense and causes conflict. can you imagine if the bible were to be re-written if all were lost...
someone would literally repeat the chapter in genesis that talks about jacob wresting/struggling/striving with an angel/a man/god and it ultimately would not make sense and confuse people.
the reason ths is so confusing is because if you read the entire passage instead of just breaking it up and chopping it to bits and pieces it really doesn't make sense... lets even look at the verse right before this "wresting took place" and we'll see why the topic of this forum is "how can you change gods word"
genesis 32:22
New International Version - "That night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two maidservants and his eleven sons and crossed the ford of the Jabbok."
New Living Translation - "During the night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two servant wives, and his eleven sons and crossed the Jabbok River with them."
English Standard Version - "The same night he arose and took his two wives, his two female servants, and his eleven children, and crossed the ford of the Jabbok."
New American Standard Bible - "Now he arose that same night and took his two wives and his two maids and his eleven children, and crossed the ford of the Jabbok."
Gods Word Translation - "During that night he got up and gathered his two wives, his two slaves and his eleven children and crossed at the shallow part of the Jabbok River."
King James Bible - "And he rose up that night, and took his two wives, and his two womenservants, and his eleven sons, and passed over the ford Jabbok."
American Standard Version - "And he rose up that night, and took his two wives, and his two handmaids, and his eleven children, and passed over the ford of the Jabbok."
so which one is authentic? handmaids? women servants? slaves? maids? female servants? maidservants? servant wives?
it doesnt really matter some will say... but if its gods words getting changed around more than even once i think its a big problem and doesnt really prove "authentic"
but the whole story about jacob is that it says he wrestled god (Genesis 32:24) and that man after i guess being defeated says that he has god and with men and have won (Genesis 32:28) then Jacob says himself that he saw God face to face (Genesis 32:30). Some say that this was not a man or God and that it was in fact an angel that wrestled with him, however if it were an angel or even a man why would the man say that he wrestled God and won? why would Jacob say he saw God face to face? Was this angel part of the Trinity?
well matthew 23:19 Says that God is not a man... then again if Jacob says he saw God how is this possible if No man hath seen God at anytime (John 1:18 and John 4:12)? although it may have been an angel right? if in fact god is not the aurthor of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33) then why is just this story alone so confusing?
the thing that lead me away from christianity is the fact that someone may give u a "theory" or try and explain this to you, but it can't be proven. all you need to do is read the verses and see for yourself it doesn't make sense.
thank goodness we still have all the bibles because if we didn't and someone tried to re-write the bible can you imagine all the confusion?
take a hundred muslims and stick them in a room seperate from each other , and have them rewrite the quran purely by memory verse by verse.. and do it with the bible just to make it fair. and you will see the chaos that will be created at the end of the experiment when a hundred different versions of the quran and bible exist. what i say can be proven it's a fair test.. now just imagine thousands and millions of people doing the same thing.
take a hundred muslims and stick them in a room seperate from each other , and have them rewrite the quran purely by memory verse by verse.. and do it with the bible just to make it fair. and you will see the chaos that will be created at the end of the experiment when a hundred different versions of the quran and bible exist. what i say can be proven it's a fair test.. now just imagine thousands and millions of people doing the same thing.
FACT... there is only ONE version of the quran
FACT... there are many translations of the quran in different languages FROM its ORIGINAL authentic form
FACT... there are thousands if not millions of the billions of muslims in the world from different countries who have memorized the entire Quran in its ORIGINAL arabic form
FACT... if you tossed all the qurans in existence into the ocean it can be RE-WRITTEN in its ORIGINAL arabic form as if it had never been lost in the first place
FACT... you would have known this if you would have read this thread from beginning to end
FACT... you should do more research before you start making false accusations
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13,621 posts, read 12,731,507 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill
FACT... there is only ONE version of the quran
FACT... there are many translations of the quran in different languages FROM its ORIGINAL authentic form
FACT... there are thousands if not millions of the billions of muslims in the world from different countries who have memorized the entire Quran in its ORIGINAL arabic form
FACT... if you tossed all the qurans in existence into the ocean it can be RE-WRITTEN in its ORIGINAL arabic form as if it had never been lost in the first place
FACT... you would have known this if you would have read this thread from beginning to end
FACT... you should do more research before you start making false accusations
fact.!!!>> that is your opinion
so you are saying that no one can rewrite the bible from memory.???but millions of people can rewrite the quran without flaws in the new memorized versions.. you are truely dreaming
so you are saying that no one can rewrite the bible from memory.???but millions of people can rewrite the quran without flaws in the new memorized versions.. you are truely dreaming
its not my opinion its a fact, not a theory. it can be proven. you see, ignorant people are unaware of this because they choose not to research or even look into a religion they know absolutely nothing about. of course im talking about people in general that lack this knowledge including yourself. you can find children reciting the quran in its original form as young as the age of 3. not only is it easy to memorize but in fact when a muslim makes their five daily prayers they recite a surah each time which is why some muslims can recite the entire quran on a weekly basis.
i can prove this. the only thing you have proven is that you really have no idea what your talking about. like i said before there is only one version to memorize. unless your memorizing it in your own language which most muslims if they memorize the quran memorize it in its original arabic form FIRST. and if you would once again read the thread from beginning to end you would see that what your bringing up again has already been discussed and we've moved on. if you would have read the thread you would know that we've already discussed the bible has multiple versions as well as translations into different languages. the quran only has one version that has been translated into different languages. however. the fact of the matter is it would be hard to re-write the bible because theres multiple versions of what was said. there is only one version of the quran so there would be no confusion in re-writing it because everyone would be repeating the same thing in its original arabic form. thats a fact. that can be proven.
and by the way, i never said NO ONE can re-write the bible. your trying to twist my words around. obviously there is someone im sure in the world who has memorized the KJV or even the ESV or the RSV or maybe even the NLT, but the fact that can be proven is that if you put these people who memorized these different versions of the bible, they would all have their own differences on what multiple verses say as i have already shown before. i show evidence. i prove what i say. i dont act like i know what im talking about when i really honestly and truly dont. i only talk about what i know. you have not only shown a lack of knowledge on this thread but disrupted a good, ongoing, dialogue that has been respectful on both sides.
its not a dream, its reality. it can be proven. as much as you may personally not like it or disagree that im right and your mistaken, doesnt make you right. i have proof. i can prove what i say. you have once again just made false accusations.
because, Greenspan, everyone here is discussing the Christian Bible....
also how am i to know that the "Jewish Bible" is even authentic? how can this be proven?
The OLDEST COMPLETE COMPILATION OF THE OLD TESTAMENT is in whats known as the Codex Sinaiticus. ANYTHING before that is just bits and fragments.
The Hebrew Scripture is the original...... The Christians took it and called it the Old Testament.
The Jewish Hebrew Scripture came first. That is why you ought to be speaking to the Hebrew Scripture, not the Christian OT.
When you are speaking to what the Bible says you really ought to go to the earliest sources which come form the Hebrew Bible.
Exactly what Bible do you think that Jesus read? The Hebrew Bible. What did his followers read the Hebrew Bible. You need to understand that there was a Hebrew Bible in existance and complete that existed before Christianity. The Christian Bible is a later compilation of the earlier Hebrew Bible.
You do really need to educate yourself. Walter does know what he speaks about.
* Hi Could you till me please how many different versions are there of the Bible & what is the original version ? If there is any difference beside translation then why is that ? Is't that supposed to be god's words ?!!.. then how could you change god's words ? Am i missing something here !! Thank you
one presumes that, if God inspires a message to be written, then he can also inspire it to be written in different ways for different times.
The Hebrew Scripture is the original...... The Christians took it and called it the Old Testament.
The Jewish Hebrew Scripture came first. That is why you ought to be speaking to the Hebrew Scripture, not the Christian OT.
When you are speaking to what the Bible says you really ought to go to the earliest sources which come form the Hebrew Bible.
Exactly what Bible do you think that Jesus read? The Hebrew Bible. What did his followers read the Hebrew Bible. You need to understand that there was a Hebrew Bible in existance and complete that existed before Christianity. The Christian Bible is a later compilation of the earlier Hebrew Bible.
You do really need to educate yourself. Walter does know what he speaks about.
Ok. The jewish bible old testament LET'S JUST SAY is 100% authentic. I want to know about Jesus and the message he came with and what happened with him. But where can I find that? The Jewish bible does not have what he said or did ow what happened in his time. I want to read the new testament because I believe in Jesus... But what can I do? There's no authentic bible that has the new testament. And if the modern day bible is taken from earlier sources then why does it not match up with the "hebrew bible"... Where is the authentic "new testament of jesus christ"? pbuh. Your now referring me to read the hebrew bible which tells me half of the story but I want the other half of where I can find what Jesus REALLY said... The hebrew bible does not talk about him or what he did or what happened with him... Where's that info? The modern day bibles are all different and confusing, but ithat doesn't change the fact I want to know what Jesus said. And why did the christians change the OT in their bible so much?
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now just imagine thousands and millions of people doing the same thing.
