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I saw a pro-abortion person once online, but in my experience it's always a man.
One was a man who was pro-abortion in rather select circumstances. He made it clear he felt women, like Palin in this case, who do not abort a Down Syndrome baby are bad. That abortion is a positive good with such kids and you're a bad or foolish person if you choose otherwise.
Then this other man was maybe not pro-abortion, but he was close to it on economic grounds. Basically his thinking was pregnancy reduces a woman's earning potential so it was maybe a positive good for society that women abort because that way they can have a more "level playing field" in the business world.
The one I've heard second-hand is the man who's pro-abortion because if the pill didn't work he doesn't want to be "on the hook" for child support. So he likes abortion as an "escape hatch" and wants his woman to do it or may even pressure that. Not many men will admit they're quite that misogynistic and callous, but I think it does happen. I know of a guy who threw his pregnant girlfriend out of a moving car in hopes it would make her miscarry. (Granted it could be he just wanted to kill her, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't it) Some guys are a bit psychopathic.
When I was pregnant with my first child my boyfriend wanted me to have an abortion. He was adamant he didn't want kids. I trundled on to the Clinic. In those days you had to sit through a video and be counseled about your choice. I started watching the video and fainted. After being revived with a hot cup of tea the Counselor chatted to me for a while and said "You are going to make a wonderful Mother".
I left that day and told my boyfriend I was going through with the pregnancy and if he didn't like it he could leave.
He stayed, we had our daughter and he loved her completely.
I support a woman's choices whether they choose an abortion or to go through with the pregnancy.
It wasn't for me but I am glad I had a choice at the time.
You're poll is misleading. Pro choice doesn't mean pro abortion. It means believing in elective abortion, which entails allowing someone the right to have an abortion. Most pro choicers aren't pro abortion. It's also a flawed claim that the majority of abortions are used as a form of birth control, when in fact that is not the case.
This is my opinon exactly. Pro-choice does not equal pro-abortion. It is about personal liberty. I personally do not like the idea of abortion but it is not my place or anyone else's, and certainly not any government's place, to tell a person what they they can or can not do with their own body.
I would like to think that rape doesn't lead automatically to abortion. I am a product of rape, my mother as a young woman was date-raped by my father whom she met only once (those were my biological parents--I was surrendered for adoption shortly after birth).
Still I think what a woman does with her body has to be up to her, although I would like to see adoption more common in these circumstances. I am male, pro-choice, and Episcopalian. I really admire people who adopt children, especially older kids in foster care who have never known a loving family, the ones who are difficult to adopt.
yeah i agree with you ,that slipped my mind in my post,adoption is a better solution,let the kid live,its not their fault,,,,,,!!!!!!!!!!
I'm a Gnostic Theist (I KNOW God exists)...I'm not at all "religious".
I always saw through the use of the ultra-general terms/sayings like "pro choice" & "right to choose" as a cover for saying you are for the right to kill a baby in the womb.
"Choose" what? "Choose" is a very general term. We don't call every decision we determine should be made manifest into action a "right to choose". So why arbitrarily call THAT decision to act, a right to "choose"? Ooooooooh wait!!...I know!...it's a "cover" way to say, "having the kid would cramp my style in some way, so I've decided to ace it"
The start of a new human life...and it IS a human being, not something else...begins at conception...that is not up for debate. The viability outside the womb is inconsequential...a newborn is not fully "viable" and is TOTALLY dependent on the care of more mature/developed humans for it's survival...MOF it is now MORE work to keep it alive than it was for the mother to maintain it's life in her womb. The argument about viability is just an excuse to try to claim the child is able to be killed without it being labeled as such. It's the SAME baby inside the womb, as it will be outside the womb...just smaller and less developed. It's THAT person, and no other, the second the sperm fertilizes the egg...and for as long as they live.
The vast of abortions are nothing more than "killings of convienience"...very rarely is the mothers life at risk, or the pregnancy the result of a sexual assault. To cite the rare exception...that might allow the practice as a "defense action"...to justify the vast majority, is grasping at straws. The oft used argument that the baby is being euthanized to prevent it's potential misery is also bogus...by that logic, we should do away everyone that doesn't have a "great life"...so they won't "suffer" any further.
It is almost beyond comprehension that a civilized society could ever allow such a heinous practice. It's the ULTIMATE genocide to ever occur in the history of the world. It blows my mind to even think that man could be so evil and selfish to be able to accept it. The ultimate of mankinds' inhumanity.
Willfully arrange (and in most cases, pay to have it done) to kill an innocent baby developing in the womb!!--Every time I contemplate the reality, that such a thing not only occurs...but occurs at a rate of a million a week...it gives me that terrible feeling deep inside me...like I get watching a graphic documentary of the holocaust (you know....the ones with the giant piles of bodies being bulldozed), the mass slaughter of the Native Americans, or the slave trade. It makes me realize how evil mankind REALLY is...and that selfishness and hedonism is so boundless it can compel some people to commit the most heinous and reprehensible of acts.
A mother conspiring to kill her own young as it grows inside her--That we could even suggest it...let alone commit such an act over 100,000 times a day...is something soooooooo absolutely wicked...it blows my mind.
In my opinion, the legalized slaughter of hundreds and hundreds of millions of innocents, by their own mothers, through abortion, is the greatest evil ever known in the history of mankind.
You are completely ignorant of what the pro choice movement promotes and stands for. My post wasn't written in mandarin. It's not that hard to understand. I said pro choice means pro elective abortion. Pro abortion means pro compelling someone to get an abortion. Elective abortion means allowing someone the liberty to get an abortion.
GldRule, go out and learn something about pro choice from an actual pro choice group or pro choicer to actually understand their platform instead of just believing whatever some 'pro life' group tells you it says.
Personally, I'm shocked abortion is legal and considered acceptable in certain cases (not counting when the mother's life is endangered, this is a different issue and something that should be left up to doctors who's duty is to do their best to save both lives) This is a life or death issue, and since death is permanent, we should always choose life. If a person gets "knocked up", I'm sorry, but you're going to become a parent. Adoption is always an option, but killing the child in the womb should not be. I don't know why, but this particular issue really gets me ticked (probably because certain doctors would have rather I been killed than born because of my mother's age and because I was a difficult birth)
If abortions become illegal - who do you think is going to suffer the consequences? The rich and powerful - who have always had abortions, illegal or not? Or the rest of the population that doesn't have the power and doesn't have the money? Even if abortions were illegal - do you think that politicians and the elite upper class of our society wouldn't be shipping off their teenage daughters to get abortions? Yes, they would. They would still have a choice. The people who need the choice the most wouldn't have it. They would resort to the good old wire hangers and such. Also - say you let rape victims get abortions. Well, if it was only rape victims and women whose lives were in danger that were allowed to have abortions - it's pretty certain that then the rape vicitims would have to prove that they were raped. So - what happens if they don't have the required proof? The rape victim gets put on trial just like her attacker. Somehow this doesn't seem like this would work very well.
Being pregnant is not easy. Not even close. I'm nauseous every single day. I'm exhausted. I also have a headache every single day - this is a newer lovely side effect. I'm also gaining weight - which is really scary for me. Is it worth it? YES!!! Why? Because I love this baby so much and I can't wait to meet it. And this is because my husband and I decided the time was right for us to have a baby. I have a wonderful husband who is here for me everyday - to massage my neck and tell me I'm beautiful and take care of me. I told him yesterday - I don't know what I would do if I was having to go through this by myself. It would be terrifying. I would never force this on anyone who wasn't ready. It's the biggest responsibility of my entire life. I'm 34 and we have a nice house and make a nice living - and it's still scary.
You are completely ignorant of what the pro choice movement promotes and stands for. My post wasn't written in mandarin. It's not that hard to understand. I said pro choice means pro elective abortion. Pro abortion means pro compelling someone to get an abortion. Elective abortion means allowing someone the liberty to get an abortion.
GldRule, go out and learn something about pro choice from an actual pro choice group or pro choicer to actually understand their platform instead of just believing whatever some 'pro life' group tells you it says.
Ahhhhhhh yes...the usual "semantic cha-cha" about "pro-choice" not meaning "pro-abortion".
Sometimes I think Bill Clinton must have given a seminar all these people attended.
I have made this argument on the issue in the past:
I want to address this "pro-choice" isn't "pro-abortion" argument or “rhetoric” used by the pro-abortion movement.
First, they adopted the term pro-choice because it sounds a lot nicer than pro-abortion. I wonder why they haven't changed...“abortion rights advocates”? If they are "pro-choice" and not "pro-abortion" then why not refer to themselves as...“choice rights advocates”?
Let's examine what the words mean. “Pro” (Latin: FOR)...means that you are in support of something. Pro-gun, pro-gay rights, pro-life, pro-union...these are all terms that describe something you support. The opposite being "Con" (Latin: CONTRA)...against (contrary) to something...something you don't support.
So, why not use the term "pro-abortion"?
The term “pro-choice” should really embody all of the “pro” stances on every issue. Why should it just define the ONE issue? If someone refers to themselves as pro-choice, what choice are they referring to? Abortion. So what they are saying is...is that they are FOR ("pro") a female being able to obtain an abortion, which makes them PRO-abortion.
The use of the word "choice" is indicative that it comes down to the stigma of being called "pro-abortion". BUT, WAIT...Why would people be sooooooo opposed to being referred to as "pro-abortion" if abortion is acceptable? If you are "FOR" a females' right to have an abortion...what's the big deal about being referred to as pro(FOR)-abortion?
I have often heard the "pro" (FOR) people say that they would love to see abortion reduced or minimized. Why? If there is nothing immoral or wrong about abortion then why should we care how many had them, or how many they had? Why would we care to reduce something that is ok? I submit: Wanting to reduce them PROVES there is something wrong with them. So, what is it that is wrong?
It's because of what abortion is.
Is abortion just a medical procedure that removes unwanted cell masses from your body...like liposuction?...NO!
Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy.
So, let's define "pregnancy"---The dictionary definition of "pregnant" reads: having a child or other offspring developing in the body; with child or young, as a woman or female mammal. The Cambridge Dictionary reads: of a woman and some female animals having young developing inside the womb.
Thus...abortion is the termination (read: killing) of a developing human person in the early stages of their life. It is that simple. We can try and sanitize it with words or phrases...but that does not change what it is.
There are a lot of things that are unpleasant that people try to make less appalling by changing the words used to describe them....like when children need to defecate you say, “go potty”. Does this change the fact that they are defecating? No, it's just "potty" sounds less gross.
THAT is why the pro-abortion movement wants to be referred to as "pro-choice", not "pro-abortion"...abortion carries a stigma that they don't want to be identified with...because deep-down they know what it REALLY is. But, I will not be conned by semantic hocus-pocus of how people describe sanctioning the evil killing of innocent human persons.
Bottom line...the "choice" of issue here is ABORTION. You are either for (pro) abortion (limited or otherwise)...or you are against (anti/con) abortion.
Sooooooo...If you are "for" (Pro) a female being able to "elect" (Choose) to do it...quit trying to shuck & jive...and cop to being PRO-abortion.
GldnRule - I honestly would never call myself pro-abortion. I don't think that abortion is cool - I do see it as being a bad thing. Could I have ever gotten one? I don't know. I'm not a scared teenager anymore. I've also always had wonderful boyfriends (I was never into the bad boys!) that I know would have stuck by me and I have the most wonderful parents that never would have turned their back on me. I'm really lucky.
However, when my 24 year old friend who is living with 3 roommates who all drink and do drugs calls me up crying because she is pregnant, I realize that it's not my place to force her to do anything. She didn't have health insurance, she worked late at night as a bartender, and the guy that got her pregnant was someone she met on a trip in a foreign country. Now - do I think she was really irresponsible - YES!!! And normally, I would rip her a new one for having unprotected sex. In this day and age - I think it's inexcusable - especially because it could kill you. But - I realize that now is not the time for this lecture. Now is the time to be a friend and support my friend no matter what she decides. What is the best solution? The best solution would be to have her get into a time machine and either not have sex or use a condem. That would be the best solution. What's the next best solution? Well, it's not my place to say. I am not pro-abortion. I am pro her having the choice to make the decision that is best for her.
I really think the best solution is the morning after pill - because it prevents you from getting pregnant. You are actually not pregnant yet - and it prevents the pregnancy.
I am pro choice to a certain time cut off because I have no choice. I have not been shown and arguments against it, so nothing has convinced me otherwise. So what choice do I have.
And it is not that I have not looked for them either. Where I am from there are often people with their anti abortion stands in the city, showing pictures of what aborted fetuses look like. I have on numerous occasions gone to them and asked for their points and arguments so I can consider them.
They just keep saying “look at the pictures” as if this is argument enough. One of them even screamed it at me 5 times “look at the pictures…. Look at the pictures….” Louder each time until I was forced to back away slowly before feeling the distance between us was safe enough to turn and walk.
So what on the pictures? They are not pretty, true… but neither are pictures of heart bypass treatments. The hideousness of seeing a chest cut open and blood and tubes everywhere says nothing about heart bypasses being “wrong” does it? Something not looking pretty does not make it morally wrong.
So so far these people appear to have no point to make…. The only people I hear making points are people who invent gods and then pretend to know those gods put “souls” into the zygote at the “moment” of conception. However I do not tend to take wholly invented fantasy as valid points… weird as that may seem to some.... and so these points are not valid to me until someone gets around to providing a shred of argument to support the base premise... that their god even exists in the first place.
Also beware of people like the poster above me who declares that the whole premise their argument is based on is "that is not up for debate". Usually when you hear that line the first thing you should realise is that most often people say it about something that VERY MUCH is up for debate. The meaning of the word "human" in any context is both subjective and variable and is hence very much "up for debate". If someone declares it is NOT up for debate they are usually doing so because they do not want to debate it.... or literally can not debate it.... so they hope their hand waving and declarations by fiat will make you look the other way. The meaning of "human", especially in a discussion of morality and/or human rights is something that not only is very much "up for debate" but it is a paramount point that we owe it to ourselves as a species to debate if we want to pretend to care about rights and morality at all.
The part I said was "not debatable", was this: The start of a new human life...and it IS a human being, not something else...begins at conception...that is not up for debate.
Now, of course, you can debate "anything". But that wasn't my point.
It was that that is the current conclusion...with very few seeing it as something other than objectively proven. Proven by the "science" that is so heavily touted around here.
So, anyone can debate it if they want---They can argue a fetus is something other than "human"...and they can argue it's "life" has not in any way "begun" yet.
But I would be curious to see what they could present to support such claims.
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Pro-choice does not equal pro-abortion. It is about personal liberty. I personally do not like the idea of abortion but it is not my place or anyone else's, and certainly not any government's place, to tell a person what they they can or can not do with their own body.