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I don't need to address the mathematical assertions that were made because they in no way refuted my assertion that our existence on this planet is due to nothing more than chance. If life arises in our universe without the hand of a higher power then it does so strictly by chance. And since there is no proof of said higher power then, well I guess we've won a lottery of astronomical proportions. And I'm not sure what preposterous argument I've made. Please enlighten me.
Go back and read the post that discusses statistics related to CHANCE . . .
That poster said nothing about a higher power.
Last edited by Miss Blue; 10-31-2011 at 01:56 PM..
Reason: red font is reserved for moderation
Why is it so hard for the great majority of us to just accept that our existence is due to nothing more than chance? There are some crazy ideas floating around on C-D's R&P forum. Some that sound as if they are straight out of a Sci-Fi novel. Why does there need to be some greater cosmic/divine purpose? What are we all so afraid of? Why do we accept things as fact with no proof?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop
I take issue with the word "chance" to describe the universe, its formation, and subsequent life on this planet and possibly others. Chance is essentially the possibility of something happening. When you buy a multi-state lottery ticket, you have approximately a 1 in 120 million chance of winning. But, there is a predictable outcome to those odds - that someone will win the lottery. In effect, the end result is predetermined, it is the chance or the odds of winning that make such a feat so impossible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by imcurious
Go back and read the post that discusses statistics related to CHANCE . . .
That poster said nothing about a higher power.
Replace the word chance in my OP with the word luck.
Go back and read the post that discusses statistics related to CHANCE . . .
That poster said nothing about a higher power.
I think some clarification is needed about my previous post. The main issue I was trying to discuss is that chance is a word often used to imply the reality of something happening despite astronomical proportions. At the very least, it is a word often used by Creationists, Intelligent Design proponents and other pseudoscientists of the same type to make ridiculous statements such as "You all believe this came about by chance?"
The reality exists that there is a chance of things bonding, forming, and taking hold in our universe. That is quite evident based on the sheer number of galaxies and stars in our universe. But, what I really wanted to point out is that the selective process is precisely what takes those grandiose odds often exclaimed by pseudoscientists and actually makes them far more likely.
When someone says that the odds of a star forming and having "just the right" conditions for planets and life and all the rest, they are making a statement of diminished knowledge. The reality is that there is nothing in the laws of physics that say all the particles in outer space can't assimilate themselves into an organized network of planets, stars, etc... in the blink of an eye. That is to say... Anything is possible but the odds (chances) of it happening are extremely small. What these pseudoscientists neglect to mention is the following caveat: "However, with the process of selection, these things become far easier to fathom."
No one would expect that a bunch of eggs, milk, flour, sugar and chocolate chips could suddenly jump up from your kitchen counter and transform themselves into chocolate chip cookie dough. The laws of physics say this is even possible. The odds of it happening, though, are so extraordinary that it's all but impossible. However, if we were to follow the process of selection in the same way that nature does, it truly wouldn't take long to come up with chocolate chip cookie dough.
That was the main point I was trying to make. Saying the universe happened by chance or even by luck is not necessarily inaccurate but it does play into the fairy tale minded pseudoscientists who apparently insist that selection never happens. The OP's original question may have sounded better if it acknowledged the principle of selection as a profound force of creation.
We don't know what caused the universe to come into existence. There are several naturalistic hypotheses, but as of now scientists are unsure of what "sparked" the universe's existence. However, just because we don't know doesn't mean that "God did it." That is a fallacy known as the "God of the Gaps" argument, and it is a poor defense of religion because it states "we don't know, therefore God." However, under such an argument, when science finds evidence to shrink the gap, god shrinks along with it.
We don't know from what the universe arose. It could have been born from the ashes of a prior universe. I don't know from whence all things came but I don't need to dream up a divine being to explain our existence.
I think some clarification is needed about my previous post. The main issue I was trying to discuss is that chance is a word often used to imply the reality of something happening despite astronomical proportions. At the very least, it is a word often used by Creationists, Intelligent Design proponents and other pseudoscientists of the same type to make ridiculous statements such as "You all believe this came about by chance?"
The reality exists that there is a chance of things bonding, forming, and taking hold in our universe. That is quite evident based on the sheer number of galaxies and stars in our universe. But, what I really wanted to point out is that the selective process is precisely what takes those grandiose odds often exclaimed by pseudoscientists and actually makes them far more likely.
When someone says that the odds of a star forming and having "just the right" conditions for planets and life and all the rest, they are making a statement of diminished knowledge. The reality is that there is nothing in the laws of physics that say all the particles in outer space can't assimilate themselves into an organized network of planets, stars, etc... in the blink of an eye. That is to say... Anything is possible but the odds (chances) of it happening are extremely small. What these pseudoscientists neglect to mention is the following caveat: "However, with the process of selection, these things become far easier to fathom."
No one would expect that a bunch of eggs, milk, flour, sugar and chocolate chips could suddenly jump up from your kitchen counter and transform themselves into chocolate chip cookie dough. The laws of physics say this is even possible. The odds of it happening, though, are so extraordinary that it's all but impossible. However, if we were to follow the process of selection in the same way that nature does, it truly wouldn't take long to come up with chocolate chip cookie dough.
That was the main point I was trying to make. Saying the universe happened by chance or even by luck is not necessarily inaccurate but it does play into the fairy tale minded pseudoscientists who apparently insist that selection never happens. The OP's original question may have sounded better if it acknowledged the principle of selection as a profound force of creation.
I didn't see anyone say that the universe was created by chance on this thread. Did I miss something?
What did you expect us to say? We don't know. Science hasn't discovered it yet.
If you asked a scientist in 1790 how life formed, he would say "I don't know, science hasn't discovered the cause for life's current state." Should he have simply accepted the (then) widespread view of young-earth creation, or kept searching for the answer? If scientists had stopped searching and went with the popular view of "God did it," we would have never discovered evolution.
There IS an answer for the origin of the universe, but we just haven't discovered it yet.
The astronomical odds against life arising from nothing does not mean a god must have had a hand in it. I've yet to see any evidence of an intelligent mind that lives outside the natural laws of the universe and is also eternal just poofed everything into being. It's just a silly idea.
Who said anything about a god? Who are you talking to and what are you refuting?
I didn't see anyone say that the universe was created by chance on this thread. Did I miss something?
First line of the very first post...
Why is it so hard for the great majority of us to just accept that our existence is due to nothing more than chance?
I would presume existence to mean the entirety of existence not just our individual existence as the result of the stork dropping us off at our Mom and Dad's house.
Oy vey. Of course that is what he initially said, then he changed it to luck . . .NEVERMIND!
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