What are the odds? (priest, Catholic, God, Christians)
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I am an agnostic because I accept the possibility that there could be an intelligent, rational mind behind the creation of the universe, although I believe that such a mind, if it exists, has no concern with earth or humanity.
However, I am an atheist because I see no real evidence supporting the existence of such a mind, so I lack belief in it, along with all other gods.
I am a strong atheist as to the Abrahamic god . . . he absolutely does not exist.
This makes three.
Answer me this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150
To me the odds of the Universe coming to be (and humans existing) by chance or simply on its own are...astronomical! Can anyone explain how the universe just came to be? On its own. No outside help.
How come you guys can't answer a simple question, but can only say " I don't believe in God".
To me the odds of the Universe coming to be (and humans existing) by chance or simply on it own are...astronomical! Can anyone explain how the universe just came to be? On its own. No outside help.
No, I cannot. You can't, either. We simply don't know.
There are some hypotheses:
1) The Big Bang was caused by a quantum fluctuation in a quantum vacuum. Nothing caused this quantum fluctuation.
2) This universe is just one of many -- perhaps infinitely many -- within a self-caused multiverse. The mechanism for generating new universes is not currently understood.
3) The universe is part of an infinite crunch-bang oscillation, with new beginnings and ends every ~50 billion or so years. Our Big Bang was the end of a previous universe and the beginning of ours. Scientists have all but disproved this theory.
4) This universe spawned from the interaction of two or more other universes.
I answered your question...I guess it wasn't the answer you wanted, huh?
I addressed your answer (post #6). You simply quoterd a bunch of scientific facts. To which I agreed. But none of which proves chance origins. But Hey, if the Big Bang proves (to you) that God does not exist go with it. To me the BB fits with a theistic origin. You may want to read my response to your post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by northstar22
No, I cannot. You can't, either. We simply don't know.
There are some hypotheses:
5) We are living in a computer simulation.
"Don't know" is all well and good. But hardly the stuff of proof.
#5 is kinda bizzare. Yet it suggests a creator to Geek mindset. Such as it is. So what about the folk who built said computer. But I digress.
I addressed your answer (post #6). You simply quoterd a bunch of scientific facts. To which I agreed. But none of which proves chance origins. But Hey, if the Big Bang proves (to you) that God does not exist go with it. To me the BB fits with a theistic origin. You may want to read my response to your post.
The Big Bang is not indicative either way on the existence of god. A god certainly could have created via Big Bang, or the event could have occurred by naturalistic processes.
Quote:
"Don't know" is all well and good. But hardly the stuff of proof.
When did I ever claim to have proof? I can't prove that atheism is true, which is why I am an agnostic atheist. However, you can't prove that theism is true, either, and you certainly can't prove that the god of the Bible exists.
Quote:
#5 is kinda bizzare. Yet it suggests a creator to Geek mindset. Such as it is. So what about the folk who built said computer. But I digress.
5 is bizarre, but it's accepted by some scientists.
I addressed your answer (post #6). You simply quoterd a bunch of scientific facts. To which I agreed. But none of which proves chance origins. But Hey, if the Big Bang proves (to you) that God does not exist go with it. To me the BB fits with a theistic origin. You may want to read my response to your post.
"Don't know" is all well and good. But hardly the stuff of proof.
#5 is kinda bizzare. Yet it suggests a creator to Geek mindset. Such as it is. So what about the folk who built said computer. But I digress.
Proof is highly over rated...I offered nothing but evidence, but you cannot do the same to support your point of view...As I said all you have is faith which is neither proof, nor evidence of anything.
Contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as a scientific proof...Proofs exist only in mathematics and logic.
5 is bizarre, but it's accepted by some scientists.
So, your good with this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur
Proof is highly over rated....
You actually posted this? Are you serious? I am speechless. But do me a favor and never, ever ask a theist to give proof for the existence of God in a debate. Just take his or her word for it as being so. OK?
. And then how it figures into the process of evolution, this adaptive process by which humans have come to be.
I read as jaw drops to the floor, this coming from one of the more conservative Christians on the board.
Quote:
So what are the odds? From the Big Bang, each event working or not. Having a 1000 events all work in a row. A million.
To make this argument, you would have to assume that everything that is was intended to turn out this way from the beginning and some how everything worked out. Not so. Suppose we were to hit the proverbial "reset button" on the universe if such a button existed. There is no gaurantee that we would get the same result. You attribute too much awe to the result that we did get.
Picture throwing a deck of cards into the air and then admiring the pattern that forms on the floor as the cards fall.{ How in the world did everything fall right into place in order to form this pattern? } If you were to pick these cards up and throw them again, exactly the same way even, there would likely be a different pattern. Would you then admire that pattern as well, and ask how everything fell into place as it did?
Quote:
To me the odds of the Universe coming to be (and humans existing) by chance or simply on it own are...astronomical! Can anyone explain how the universe just came to be? On its own. No outside help.
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If we were to hit the reset button there would be no assurance of our existence. FYI, nothing is truly random. Even the direction in which a raindrop slides down a window isn't random. Take into account the density of the drop, wind, imperfections in the glass, etc. etc. All of which would be determining factors for the direction that the drop slid.
You actually posted this? Are you serious? I am speechless. But do me a favor and never, ever ask a theist to give proof for the existence of God in a debate. Just take his or her word for it as being so. OK?
Like it or not, the word proof is not used in science, and I ask for evidence, not proof...Do you have any evidence of a creator god?...No, all you have is faith.
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So, your good with this? 
