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"Mistranslation card"? you act as if correct interpretation is of no importance. My back is not against any wall, not sure where you gathered that. If you don't want to be educated about the original Hebrew text, then there is no point in even discussing it.
If you read what the Bible says, you'll garner its meaning. If you instead avoid what the Bible says and pursue concepts/translations more to your liking, then all you're going to end up with are your own desires. As we all know, this is very popular within Christianity. It's so popular, in fact, that there are more than 38,000 different versions of what the Bible is proclaimed to say. None of them are consistent with the actual words of the Bible.
And along you come, holding one of these 38,000 different versions, and proclaim that anyone disagreeing with you does not understand what the words mean. You claim that professional translators are wrong and further claim that what has been perfectly acceptable for over two thousand years is now wrongly translated. Yet, as we so often see from Christian apologists, these 'mistranslations' only happen when there is something written in the Bible that most civilised people would consider unacceptable or when we find something that Christians don't want to be true.
An example of this is when we read anything that implies that 'Jesus is love'. Then, we are told by people such as yourself that the Bible is the 'infallible word of god' and that we must believe it...every word of it..... exactly as it is written....'Jesus is love', the Bible says so, no need to alter the wording or claim that it says anything other than what it does say. Yet when we read that Jesus says we must hate our parents or family, y'all throw your arms in the air and say that it doesn't actually mean what it says, it has been 'mistranslated' or has been 'misinterpreted' in some way or other. The 'infallible word of God' suddenly changes from something that we must accept without question and becomes something that we need a special set of rules to understand...some secret code that only Christians are in possession of!
Have you noticed that you've been reading thousands of posts on this forum and responding to them? Have you noticed that not one poster has published a set of rules as to how his words should be interpreted? What makes you think you have the slightest idea what someone's words are saying since you're not equipped with a set of rules with which to read them?
It is a case of "Christian Semantics" -- any word can be defined, translated or interpreted to mean anything at all that is convenient to attempt defend Bible stories and statements. "Day" can mean 24 hours or a million years – depending on "interpretation/translation" of the "inerrant" scriptures by self-appointed representatives.
If you read what the Bible says, you'll garner its meaning. If you instead avoid what the Bible says and pursue concepts/translations more to your liking, then all you're going to end up with are your own desires. As we all know, this is very popular within Christianity. It's so popular, in fact, that there are more than 38,000 different versions of what the Bible is proclaimed to say. None of them are consistent with the actual words of the Bible.
And along you come, holding one of these 38,000 different versions, and proclaim that anyone disagreeing with you does not understand what the words mean. You claim that professional translators are wrong and further claim that what has been perfectly acceptable for over two thousand years is now wrongly translated. Yet, as we so often see from Christian apologists, these 'mistranslations' only happen when there is something written in the Bible that most civilised people would consider unacceptable or when we find something that Christians don't want to be true.
An example of this is when we read anything that implies that 'Jesus is love'. Then, we are told by people such as yourself that the Bible is the 'infallible word of god' and that we must believe it...every word of it..... exactly as it is written....'Jesus is love', the Bible says so, no need to alter the wording or claim that it says anything other than what it does say. Yet when we read that Jesus says we must hate our parents or family, y'all throw your arms in the air and say that it doesn't actually mean what it says, it has been 'mistranslated' or has been 'misinterpreted' in some way or other. The 'infallible word of God' suddenly changes from something that we must accept without question and becomes something that we need a special set of rules to understand...some secret code that only Christians are in possession of!
Have you noticed that you've been reading thousands of posts on this forum and responding to them? Have you noticed that not one poster has published a set of rules as to how his words should be interpreted? What makes you think you have the slightest idea what someone's words are saying since you're not equipped with a set of rules with which to read them?
It is a case of "Christian Semantics" -- any word can be defined, translated or interpreted to mean anything at all that is convenient to attempt defend Bible stories and statements. "Day" can mean 24 hours or a million years – depending on "interpretation/translation" of the "inerrant" scriptures by self-appointed representatives.
Simply put, you have no idea what you are talking about. 38,000 Bible interpretations? Even if that was true, that doesn't mean there isn't a correct way to translate/interpret it.
Simply put, you have no idea what you are talking about. 38,000 Bible interpretations? Even if that was true, that doesn't mean there isn't a correct way to translate/interpret it.
You have two choices:
1. The Bible and all of it's contents are 100% true and to be take literally.
2. Or the Bible is parable and is to be interpreted by Man.
Number one is usually not very palatable to most Christians as it's just way to hard to follow the Bible 100%. There is some wacky stuff in the Bible.
Choice number two is more common but the issue there is that the Bible becomes fallible due to Man's imperfections.
But what most Christian do is take the middle between the two choices. They choose what is literal and what is parable as it suits their needs.
I find most Bible believing Christians to be hypocrites to one extent or another.
1. The Bible and all of it's contents are 100% true and to be take literally.
I believe in Biblical inerrancy. This does not mean you have to take everything literally. There are things that are clearly symbolic i.e. Daniels prophecy's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebnllnb
I find most Bible believing Christians to be hypocrites to one extent or another.
I agree. But to be fair as humans we all are or have been hypocrites at some point in our lives.
I believe in Biblical inerrancy. This does not mean you have to take everything literally. There are things that are clearly symbolic i.e. Daniels prophecy's.
Who gets to decide which is which? That was the point, folk get to make up whatever suits their beliefs
Quote:
I agree. But to be fair as humans we all are or have been hypocrites at some point in our lives.
Religion or belief in invisible deities does not change this, in fact it tends to amplify it.
That's what I have to trust God with. He gave me the Spirit of discernment. If I make a mistake, then I think He will reveal the truth at some point down the road. Luckily I have some well versed and experienced teachers to help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA
That was the point, folk get to make up whatever suits their beliefs
I agree. The hope is though, that if the person is a believer, they will also be corrected at some point in their life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA
Religion or belief in invisible deities does not change this, in fact it tends to amplify it.
Definitely, the process of becoming more like Christ is a life long one. When you are shown that what you are doing is wrong by looking in the mirror/Bible, it is sometimes very painful and hard to overcome a particular sin that you may struggle with.
Simply put, you have no idea what you are talking about. 38,000 Bible interpretations? Even if that was true, that doesn't mean there isn't a correct way to translate/interpret it.
No, no pal....you have not interpreted my word correctly. You simply cannot understand what I'm saying because I have not given you the secret codes and hidden messages that will allow you to interpret what I am saying correctly. You do not understand my words.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro
I believe in Biblical inerrancy. This does not mean you have to take everything literally. There are things that are clearly symbolic i.e. Daniels prophecy's
So you believe that the Bible is inerrant whilst believing that some things in it are not true????
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahaha!!!! Work that one out folks!
BTW. You didn't respond to this....
"For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him."
Colossians 1:16
Clearly, according to the 'infallible' word of your god, ALL things were created by him and it doesn't matter whether you call something evil, bad, calamity, disaster, unfortunate, not good, or 'a bit of a bummer'....it was still created by your god. Therefore, we are left with no other conclusion that your god DID create 'evil', 'sin', 'wickedness' or whatever else you want to call it.
Perhaps the Bible authors forgot to put 'except evil and anything bad' at the end of the Colossians 1:16 huh?
I hear a whole lotta Moderator cut: delete about why evil exists. Evil only exists within the mind of the believer, if you believe in evil, then it exists.
The people that want to prove that there is no God are the ones that are bringing up the problem of evil. If evil doesn't exist, then why are the non-believers bringing it up as a problem?
No, no pal....you have not interpreted my word correctly. You simply cannot understand what I'm saying because I have not given you the secret codes and hidden messages that will allow you to interpret what I am saying correctly. You do not understand my words.
Okay, now I know not to take anything you say seriously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius
So you believe that the Bible is inerrant whilst believing that some things in it are not true????
When did I say that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius
BTW. You didn't respond to this....
"For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him."
Colossians 1:16
Don't know why I am responding to this but here it goes...
God did create everything. As I said before, evil(that's evil the way we see it today) is not a tangible "thing" that is created. Evil is anything that has been perverted from the original intent of what God wanted it to be. This can happen in a reality that has free will beings. Evil is a lack of God, like darkness is a lack of light.
Evil is a lack of God, like darkness is a lack of light.
Lack of which god? If evil is a lack of god, then we must all be evil.
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