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I would like to add something to this conversation: Because someone says that he or she is a Christian, this does not mean it is true. In the New Testament, the people who followed Jesus were called the "saints of God." Are the people who are saying that they are Christians or saints of God are they following the Christian beliefs? What I can remember from history ,and what is going on today, most of them did NOT accept Jesus! They spent most of the time in the Old Testatment in order to justify wars, and to steal other people's lands. They stopped in the Old Testament with the Book of Malachi; they didn't enter the New Testament!!! Jesus said, "You live by the sword, you die by the sword...Love your enemy." How could Christian countries declare war on another country and get away with it? They couldn't do this under the teachings of Jesus! Nowadays, countries and people continue to do bad things, so they are NOT saints of God or Christians. They are impostors!!! Don't believe any word coming out of their murdering, lying, and psychopathic mouths!!!
I completely agree with you though. I'm always surprised that Christians engage in war. I would think our military would be full of Jews and Atheists, not Christians. But, yet another great topic. You should start a thread with this, it would make a great topic for further discussion.
You mean like books, Scientific studies, viewing nature from a hillside, looking up at the stars with a telescope, or viewing life from a microscope? Oops, without my brain having direct investment I couldn't do those things.
What can a person do without investing thought? Well, aside from blind faith.
It's funny. People like you and squirt gun gal fill out your about me sections, hoping desperately somebody, somewhere, cares. We don't. It's rather pathetic, actually.
The point is that you are mischaracterizing what I said and you are making false accusations towards me. At first, in the last post, these accusations were vaguely hinted at. In this post, they are explicitly stated:
Accusation number 1: You accuse me of "being ruled and live my (sic) life through my feelings."
This is a false accusation, to which I have already explained in a previous post.
Accusation number 2: You accuse me of "spreading my word like a virus." Also, you accuse my belief in Jesus Christ to be a "group delusion." That's a pretty strong accusation. What proof do you have that makes you so certain that you can accuse me of being a part of a group delusion? Without evidence, your accusation is nothing short of a disinformation tactic.
Accusation number 3: (guilt by association) You insinuate that my belief in Jesus Christ is somehow related to a belief that led to or encouraged a mass suicide. This despite the fact that my belief system would NEVER encourage that sort of behaviour.
Acccusation number 4: You falsely accuse me of not believing in "any other but yours." Not true at all. I've already stated in another post that I do believe in Satan. I do not worship Satan, I worship the God of Abraham..but that's not the same thing as not believing.
Summary- one long ad hominem attack, and an unprovoked one at that, as I have been respectful towards you.
dys
You are absolutely correct. My opinion of all Christians is this. If you are Christian I assume this of you. From where I stand, in general, Christians are all of these things and more. Specifically you, maybe not, but you as in "a Christian", yes indeed.
Christian accusation number 1 - Ruled by how they feel - Proof - the only evidence of their God is their actions based on how they feel about the God.
Accusation 2 - you may not personally witness but you stand within the group of Christians and the majority of Christians do. If you don't adhere to specific bible passages personally, I don't see it, I see the majority from my end. My opinion of Christians is a general one, over all, it's based on what the majority of your group does. I don't know you personally, if I did I would form other opinions based on that.
(I would not expect you to see me as an Atheist that believes in God somewhat, I'd expect you see me as you do all Atheists, a non believer) I do the same with you.
Accusation 3 - Google Christian belief and mass suicide, group suicide.
Yes, I do associate Christians and other religion groups with mass delusion, which in some cases can end in mass suicide.
When the shoe fits.
My point wasn't suicide though, it was specific to the power of the mind and how a group of people can believe in something so strongly that they are willing to off themselves for it. People who believe in things YOU don't(such as alien invasions). When they do this, you(as a christian) see that clearly as a delusion, why wouldn't I(as an atheist) see you this way?
The mind is a powerful thing. That was my point. I accuse you of having a powerful mind capable of delusions, yes, I believe we all have that.
Accusation 4 - I've addressed your belief in Satan already.
Let me add a 5 to the list - I see Christians as people who can pray for material needs, glorious accomplishments that make tons of money, bfs and gfs, and outcomes to anything which usually are not spiritual in the least. They pray to a God for the outcome like Aladdin rubs a lamp for wishes.
I also assume you pray if you are a Christian. You may not personally but yes, until I know you I assume you do. I see it on the television daily, I hear it in the store, at school, in the work place.
So, yes, overall I see Christians in this light. Specific Christians I know personally, no, because I know them personally and they've told me what they leave out of their Christian beliefs. But, I don't consider them true Christians.
Just as I assume if I claimed Atheism and also claimed some belief in God they wouldn't really see me as a true Atheist. All of this of course is IMO. Try not to be confused. Be honest with yourself instead.
I totally understand that as an Atheist I'm assumed to have no faith in God. It's assumed that I don't attend a church, I don't pray, and I don't engage in being blessed. I'm good with that. Why wouldn't people assume that of me?
Last edited by PoppySead; 07-01-2012 at 09:08 AM..
It's funny. People like you and squirt gun gal fill out your about me sections, hoping desperately somebody, somewhere, cares. We don't. It's rather pathetic, actually.
That's my point exactly. I know you don't care. So I assume and skip it. We can both agree on that one.
Christians mission, when it's not working they get angry. Simple. Even Christians admit their human first. Believers second.
You are absolutely correct. My opinion of all Christians is this. If you are Christian I assume this of you. From where I stand, in general, Christians are all of these things and more. Specifically you, maybe not, but you as in "a Christian", yes indeed.
Christian accusation number 1 - Ruled by how they feel - Proof - the only evidence of their God is their actions based on how they feel about the God.
Accusation 2 - you may not personally witness but you stand within the group of Christians and the majority of Christians do. If you don't adhere to specific bible passages personally, I don't see it, I see the majority from my end. My opinion of Christians is a general one, over all, it's based on what the majority of your group does. I don't know you personally, if I did I would form other opinions based on that.
(I would not expect you to see me as an Atheist that believes in God somewhat, I'd expect you see me as you do all Atheists, a non believer) I do the same with you.
Accusation 3 - Google Christian belief and mass suicide, group suicide.
Yes, I do associate Christians and other religion groups with mass delusion, which in some cases can end in mass suicide.
When the shoe fits.
My point wasn't suicide though, it was specific to the power of the mind and how a group of people can believe in something so strongly that they are willing to off themselves for it. People who believe in things YOU don't(such as alien invasions). When they do this, you(as a christian) see that clearly as a delusion, why wouldn't I(as an atheist) see you this way?
The mind is a powerful thing. That was my point. I accuse you of having a powerful mind capable of delusions, yes, I believe we all have that.
Accusation 4 - I've addressed your belief in Satan already.
Let me add a 5 to the list - I see Christians as people who can pray for material needs, glorious accomplishments that make tons of money, bfs and gfs, and outcomes to anything which usually are not spiritual in the least. They pray to a God for the outcome like Aladdin rubs a lamp for wishes.
I also assume you pray if you are a Christian. You may not personally but yes, until I know you I assume you do. I see it on the television daily, I hear it in the store, at school, in the work place.
So, yes, overall I see Christians in this light. Specific Christians I know personally, no, because I know them personally and they've told me what they leave out of their Christian beliefs. But, I don't consider them true Christians.
Just as I assume if I claimed Atheism and also claimed some belief in God they wouldn't really see me as a true Atheist. All of this of course is IMO. Try not to be confused. Be honest with yourself instead.
I totally understand that as an Atheist I'm assumed to have no faith in God. It's assumed that I don't attend a church, I don't pray, and I don't engage in being blessed. I'm good with that. Why wouldn't people assume that of me?
I do appreciate you responding to my post. Instead of going point by point, let me just say that a lot of this comes down to the point that Gentu already made and you responded to- those that claim to be Christians and are not. This is one reason I don't normally use the term 'Christian' when describing myself...I prefer 'believer in Jesus Christ'. I don't want to be lumped into, or categorized, as being just like a lot of the other imposters out there (and that is not to say that true Christians do not exist, I believe they do although they are in the minority).
You have to understand that group suicide, or murder, or war involving killing people...these are all totally antithetical to what Jesus Christ taught. If anyone is doing these things, it is NOT because they believe on Jesus Christ it is because they have been deceived or it is because they believed in men. If those that call themselves 'Christians' hate their fellow man, they are imposters and the bible specifically confirms that.
To give you an idea of how many imposters there are out there, it might surprise you that at this time I don't even belong to a church. MOST of them, in my experience, have been totally corrupted. MOST of those that purport to be Christians are imposters.
RE: prayer. I do pray and you make a good point about praying for non spiritual things. For myself, I try to pray for wisdom, or strength, or my friends/family and enemies. I will say that I have prayed for non spiritual things at times, and it is not always the right thing to do. It is tempting, because prayer is a very powerful thing, and the God that I am praying to is a very merciful and loving God who loves to do good things to His children. But you make a good point. You see, I'm just a man...I'm not a God. As a man, I'm extremely imperfect (probably much more imperfect than the average), so I have no problem being taken to task for my limitations and mistakes. The problem I have is when the mistakes and limitations of men are pinned on Jesus Christ.
I am curious as to why people post in a religion forum when they are not religious in nature. Over the years I have frequented forums and noticed a trend of non-religious people attracted to responding to religious threads. While I understand there are many religions, the one I see people spending so much time attempting to debunk is Christianity. What is the draw?
Why do gun-ho Christians feel the need to share the joyous word of the Lord, "save" and baptize as many "lost souls" as possible?
It's the same basic reason. You find the truth and feel duty-bound evangelize.
Now reverend Chango will take the podium...
Brothers and sisters, there is no god. There is no purpose to life. We are all apes, and generally speaking we are a sorry lot who still act the part.
But we have one thing our hairier cousins don't... limitless potential. Humanity is still in a childish state today... but someday our kind will "grow up", spread across the universe and become "gods" in both technical ability and wisdom. It is our duty to lay the foundations for that glorious, meaningful future for our kind.
Here are your commandments:
Be excellent to each other.
Learn lots of stuff.
Work to create/promote an environment that encourages commandments #1 and #2
You mean like books, Scientific studies, viewing nature from a hillside, looking up at the stars with a telescope, or viewing life from a microscope? Oops, without my brain having direct investment I couldn't do those things.
What can a person do without investing thought? Well, aside from blind faith.
Sure, because there is nothing beyond the brain. When your pet dies, it's your brains connections making you sad. When that SO breaks it off, your brain is distraught, not your heart. When you see a beautiful sunset, it's your rational thought process that makes that decision, not something as silly and as unproven or observable as Hunan emotions. When you say you love someone, what you really mean is my brain considers you an appropriate mating candidate. Course, I'm not sure that explains homosexuality, as obviously the brain cannot anticipate gene generational transference, since the same sex cannot by themselves reproduce.
Who knew, we are all just Vulcans after all, without the pointy ears and green blood, of course! Lol
One of the most prevalent propoganda campaigns out there is to try to conflate 'faith' and 'religion'. They are not remotely the same thing. Religion can be corrupted by corrupted men, faith in Jesus Christ is something different entirely. If you'll notice, those that confess their faith in Jesus Christ are often falsely accused of pushing their 'religion' even if they never mention religion or anything related to religion.
As far as your view on Jesus Christ, I have a logical argument I'd like to present to you:
If you accept the premise that Jesus Christ was in fact a real person that was born around 2000 years ago, and that he claimed to be the living Son of God, there are only a few possibilities that are possible under that scenario, none of them that He was an ascended master.
1. He was who He said he was, the true Son of the living God in heaven. (this is what I believe)
2. He was not the true Son of God as he claimed to be. In which case, he was either:
a. a liar,
b. or a madman.
By the way, 'ascended masters' is a Satanic term and Jung was a practicing member of the occult.
Food for thought.
dys
Your entire response is just silly and ill-informed.
Yes, sir, this is exactly what I am saying. I am aware of God through observation, inquiry, and information. Not traditional obervation, inquiry, or infomation, however. Let me give you an example of what I'm talking about. (this may seem silly and I realize it's probably not an argument that will have a lot of utility with you, but I will try anyway) I have had the experience many times of saying a prayer in the form of a question, and then the next time I open my bible, the answer to my prayer is right in front of me within a few sentences. Being a skeptical person (yes, believe it or not I'm a born skeptic), at first my mind would not 'accept' the answer as true until I verified the answer through life experience. These answers are ALWAYS correct. This is not something that has happened once or twice, it's something that I have been able to verify as valid many times over- and it's AlWAYS valid as God is infallible. This is just one example of an experience that absolutely confirms that my belief is factually based.
No, Sir, you are wrong. It is literally the ONLY thing that I know is the truth in this world. Jesus Christ: "I am the way, the truth, and the life."
dys
Wait you are claiming flipping randomly through the bible is the same thing as observing god?
Ok well you are either deluded or lying. Reading a book about something is not "observing" it any more than seeing a painting of an elephant is observing one.
Sorry but if you are going to change the meanings of words to fit what YOU WANT them to mean, then you cannot have an honest debate.
deleted everything irrelevant to actual discussion
So why do you bother to quote people when you don't even bother to attempt to discuss those posts?
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Try not to be confused. Be honest with yourself instead. 
