Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913
No, because the idea of God is based around faith, and the minute faith dies, then there is no more hope for humanity.
√ When I found out that no one could answer that question, I conclude that the belief in science was a thing of faith as well.
√ You must have faith in human measurement and observation, because that is the starting point towards "proof".
√ So as long as this is the case, science can never replace the glory of God for many people.
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They offer entirely different points of view, on of blind faith, and the other of formulations based on research and questioning hat is mutually conducted by literally tens of thousands of independent researchers the world over.
So you simply cannot outright dismiss all that we have observed in this life, that we have tested and re-tested, and then formulated rational theories. when these completely isolate and dissolve old fairy tales, where do you go from there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmicstargoat
Science has no such faith. Science observes, then formulates falsifiable theories to explain what has been observed. What you are doing is starting from a rigid conclusion and then sniffing around for things that might support it and you are finding nothing.
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Agreed. No faith involved, except in the eyes of those who would purposefully denigrate what they do not want to hear. Then, it's lowered to the same level as they know their faith exists ta: which is: not very believable.
Interesting, isn't it? The Christian faith based system
is obviously flawed in it's abilities to answer questions, and so the devout Christians try to call science down to that level. ("Science is just another religion!" or "Science is also faith-based!") They do this knowingly. Amazing!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad
"Observing" what happened 13 or so billion years ago doesn't require some level of faith? Who are you kidding?
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Well, let's see how all this works, shall we? That is, if we're rational & logical people.
1) the bullet hole's in the wall.
2) The victim is laying there with a hole through his shoulder,
3) the hole's in through his front shoulder, out through his back in a line with the hole in the front, and
4) his blood's on the hole in the wall that the bullet made.
Q: did a bullet perforate this victim? Is it likely the same bullet that we'll find in the wall?
Or, did "Jebuss" just step in, direct a golden laser beam through the victim's chest, but also, unrelated, create an
insta-poofy (i.e.: Creationistic) bullet that magically flew through the air, being "created" behind the guy without having even touched him at all, but magically had some of the victims blood on it just "because". And it had nothing to do with the guy's death because of an alternate but illogical story written up by someone who wasn't there either? Which story yah gonna go with, I wonder? Hmmm.... (
Eeeny-Meeny-minneey-mohhhh?? Q: Is that how you do it, VD?)
? Yup: I gotz-dah faith, Lawdy!
You can decide what happened. Or you can say it's unrelated. All of it. Because, as we all know, God works in mysterious ways!
So. Lessee here: what basic logical questioning might alternately produce? (aka: The SM, a formalized version of Q&A designed to minimize assumptions and fakery via peer review. Note: Not an Evil™ spiritual entity!)
√ We have background radiation/EM energy that is trailing off, but is
√ measurably from a specific initial point.
√ Most every physical body is moving away from that same initial point.
√ And by simple calculations, this happened
about 14M years ago which oddly coincides with a lot of other independent geological, astronomical and biological observables...... Hmmm....
√ Other cosmic and astronomical entities in space are not yet finished forming up (despite the claim that God was finished with His universe during Creation. Wow! Fat chance of that!)
√ We have mounds of detailed observable and checkable evidence of an ancient earth that was formed by very dynamic events, incl. early volcanism.
√ The most recent (in the last few days, in fact...) info from the latest Mars Rover shows,
absolutely, that it once had water. Probably still does! And probably (and I'm wiling to bet if you are...) that there's strange life forms there as well! Or at least there might be some ancient proofs (via Evil™ deductive reasoning I will allow;
Bwah-hah-hahhhh!) but if/when they find tiny fossils on Mars, whatcha gonna do then, VD?).
Perhaps it was tens of thousands, if not millions, of years ago. Soon enough we'll find that out.
God didn't mention that in the official biblical tomb, now did He? Or the traveling minstrel prophets? No
duhh, since the prophets had no idea that Mars even existed, so they could hardly have been expected to incorporate any of the solar system's facts into their fairy tales, now could they?
Finally, all Christians, sadly for them, seem to
require that there be a "before" and "after", as others here have noted. Why? Simply enough, WHY? So you can have an complete Godly story tale, with a beginning ("Once upon a time...") and a happy ending ("And the Golden Ship came and all the good Christian people got on board, and the heathen-savage scientists all perished, screaming for help, in a firey pit. And a good time was had by all the good Christians!")
As for "before" and "after" options, see Nozzferanto's excellent line of reasoning, above. Listen and learn, grasshopper!
Yup. Your wild ideas sure make a lot of sense to me. While our stuff, even though it doesn't yet have all the answers you insist on, is
therefore completely wrong. And your ideas,
not to be confused with fairy dust nonsense, is all correct, even though none of it fits what we can observe. Just like that bullet hole, which obviously got there by pure magic, yup!
No deductive reasoning allowed, ever. As God is my witness, and as my priest has admonished me! Lest I go directly to hell for being impertinent against God!
You just go on with that one, OK? Oh: I see: you agree with me...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad
You can believe in whatever you want. And maybe there are others who also believe in this fairy dust and you can share this belief together.
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As noted, you can go right on denying all that's so easily observable and reproducible now, and deny deny
DENY. I think it's called
Denialism. Or is it
Delusional? Can't remember: maybe it's both? I'll go with that. Our version is all fairy dust. Yup. (Please, Nurse Kratchett: I need my meds now, because I'm pretty sure this guy is just a bad dream demon...)
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Bad Dream Time. Again.
