Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I will try another way of clarifying something', I attempted to clarify a few pages back.
Evolution has nothing to do with Creation.
Creation has nothing to to with Evolution.
They are 2 separate topics.
Creation has to do with Nothing becoming something
Evolution has to do with something that exists, developing into a more advanced stage. Or in some cases regressing to a less advanced stage. ie down breeding horses back to their original miniature size.
Creation does not rule out evolution.
Evolution does not rule out creation.
Another person that has the same basic belief as I do.
Although I do believe humans "evolved".
If you are referring to the Biblical creation story, I must disagree. Science has determined that we humans were not "created" as we are now. We know that we have an ancestor common with chimps and gorillas. Unless you believe that Adam and Eve were less evolved than these, then human evolution does rule out the Biblical creation.
Only if you insist on a carnal interpretation focused on the physical body . . . instead of the Spirit (consciousness). What makes humans human is NOT our physical body . . . it is our consciousness. Our physical bodies are indeed the dust of the earth . . . but our consciousness is NOT.
Evolution theories are explanations of what happened to primordial materials
Creation theories are explanations of the origin of the primordial materials.
No matter how Evolutionary theories explain Human development it is not related to the issue of origin of the original material
Like wise no matter how creation theories describe the origin of matter, they are not related to what happened to the material.
To state that God(swt) created matter. Is a creation theory. to state how He formed matter into man is a Theory of Evolution.
To state matter spontaneously came into existence is a creation theory
to state that matter developed into humans is an evolution theory.
There are many Theories of Creation, some based upon a Deity some not.
There are many Theories of Evolution some based upon a Deity, some not.
But one does not explain the other.
Us theists have to learn to recognize, that until we can replicate the Creation of the universe and formation of man, our beliefs of our origin are just as much theory as scientific theories .
Not exactly. Scientific theories are the best explanations based upon the available evidence, peer reviewed, falsified, and analyzed. Creation theories are not theories at all, only speculation based upon unreliable ancient text.
As you know the Bible claims that God created humans in their present form, relatively speaking. Evolution contradicts that claim with solid, objective, empirical evidence. Evolution does disprove the creation story in the Bible.
Only if you insist on a carnal interpretation focused on the physical body . . . instead of the Spirit (consciousness). What makes humans human is NOT our physical body . . . it is our consciousness. Our physical bodies are indeed the dust of the earth . . . but our consciousness is NOT.
You can't really demonstrate a "spirit" or "universal consciousness", so your claims again are only speculation and, IMO, wishful thinking.
You could always talk to an actual biologist, open up a book about evolution written by an evolutionary biologist or take a simple biology class. Those will probably be better than asking questions about it on an internet forum. You don't even need to take a university level biology course, just take seventh grade science.
Evolution theories are explanations of what happened to primordial materials
Creation theories are explanations of the origin of the primordial materials.
This is just a variation on the "non-overlapping magisteria" theory that faith and science address different areas -- which is an attempt to distance theistic beliefs from potentially damaging contact with reality.
It is true that evolution is not a complete enough theory to adequately address origins, other than to frankly admit that there is not enough data at present to say more on the topic. Scientific ruminations on ultimate origins are still often in the realm of hypothesis and sometimes not even that. This is not a reflection on a shortcoming of science but on the limitations of human knowledge and what is knowable by humans -- at least for now.
That theism make baseless assertions about origins whereas science does not, does not mean that theism is a source of valid data. It just means that it can't sit with uncertainty and tries to make things up to relieve the tension.
Eusebius, we have done this to death. We know what we can present as evidence and we know what you demand as proof.
We know what the gap is and how you can make a case for the evidence we do have not being enough because as you posted, you would need to see fossil evidence of every stage of evolution before you would believe it.
The fact is we do not really care whether you believe it or not, only it might require you to struggle to find new modes of denial if you keep on.
The only reason we even respond is that we cannot risk the old *crickets* ploy that I got when I was just busy for a couple of days.
Yet, it is true that we only hinted at the evidence - strata,fossils in that strata. If you researched half as much as you expect me to do researching out your evidence for you, you could have had a look yourself.
But as this is a new 'Prove evolution' thread. It might be a good idea to present the pictorial and linked evidence for each level of strata from the earliest pre -cambrians and the cell- groups through each level (and why we can place it after one and before the next -and what is in that next and is only in that next strata.
And of course give the transitionals and especial reference to the hominid sequence.
Not 'proof' - not the sort Eusebius demands, but evidence. 'This is the evidence - draw your conclusions from it'.
It might even be a good sticky. at least worth keeping like my 'show and tell'.
Anyone want to help?
Excellent post. Unfortunately it is pretty obvious that acceptable evidence to those who do not believe in science or understand the scientific method will only come in the form of an archangel appearing before them and stating that it is so. Even then only a small percentage will believe because these people have little to no trust of their own senses. They remind me of the fictional futuristic machine that burns out its own circuits in order to prevent itself from hearing what it knows is the truth.
Excellent post. Unfortunately it is pretty obvious that acceptable evidence to those who do not believe in science or understand the scientific method will only come in the form of an archangel appearing before them and stating that it is so. Even then only a small percentage will believe because these people have little to no trust of their own senses. They remind me of the fictional futuristic machine that burns out its own circuits in order to prevent itself from hearing what it knows is the truth.
Such an archangel would, to them, clearly be a deceiving emissary of Satan. Although I have compassion for this. I would be highly skeptical that a godlike being appearing even to the entire world and proclaiming itself was just a very advanced alien yanking our chain -- or trying to put us in chains.
The subtle difference is that skepticism as a default position is a virtue, not a vice. Theists are skeptical only if they are obliged to have to explain the difference between dogma and reality. Atheists are skeptical of everything because science can only engage with falsifiable hypotheses.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
at least worth keeping like my 'show and tell'. 