Proof the God was created by Man (prophet, Muslim, Apostle)
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So we have observed in real time hominids transforming into human beings? Wow.
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Originally Posted by mensaguy
Tell you what, Jeff. You go find a peer reviewed science site that says evolution means "a hominid transforms into a human being" and we'll start looking for examples.
Evolution takes place over hundreds of generations, as you well know. No living creature has ever transformed into another living creature.
That's what was in 10th grade biology class.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
No need to muddy up the waters here. You know full well that it is common to associate abiogenesis with evolution and it's at the heart of an evolution debate. The mechanism that you define as evolution could have simply have been another defense mechanism from God to allow species to adapt to different environments. It's a far reach to tell me that I arrived from a primate ancestor simply from observing that moths have changed colors.
So, are you now saying that hominids didn't transform into human beings?
I know of no scientist that claims that abiogenesis is a part of the science of evolution. Evolution describes how living organism change over generations, but does not make any claim about how life began. (BTW, that is most definitely not MY definition. I use dictionaries for definitions.) I also never mentioned moths changing colors. Do moths have anything to do with hominids transforming into human beings?
The image of God that we have--a robed, bearded older gent dwelling in the sky, expressing his wrath with thunder and lightning, and governing a domain of heavenly beings above the clouds, is the Sky God of ancient Indo-European peoples, as conceived over 5000 years ago. When those early people migrated into Asia and set up a series of civilizations, first in the Altai Mountains stretching into western Mongolia after the last Ice Age ended, then moving south into the Tarim Basin north of Tibet, creating oasis towns in the desert, they communicated their beliefs to some of the people who migrated into the area from the east.
The Mongols and Turkic peoples who evolved in those areas adopted much of that culture and the belief system. Those traditions survived in Inner Asia until modern times, and now are being revived to some extent, after the collapse of the Soviet regime and enforced atheism. Genghis Kahn prayed to "the Great Blue Sky", the sky god, "Tengri". He was believed to be a creator, and therefore a sort of shaman, and a judge of good and evil.
Of course man invented God. It was a natural thing to do, in an attempt to explain the forces of nature and the world all around. Early man all over the world invented a god or pantheon of gods and spirits.
I doubt that you would agree with other members of your congregation on every single detail about the Christian God. Then again, some churches do require strict adherence at a high level of detail.
So there you go. You were full of hot air.
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Regardless, my point was simple: there is enormous disagreement on the definition of "God" in the world today, even within religions. And even within denominations. And within congregations. Even pastors fight about it (or at least they did in my church). If "God" were real, we wouldn't expect this level of widespread disagreement (that has even led to war).
Not really. That's my point. There are huge numbers of Christians in this country that all agree on who God is. The only issue is when non-Christians try to tell us what we have to believe and who we have to accept as being one of us.
Not really. That's my point. There are huge numbers of Christians in this country that all agree on who God is. The only issue is when non-Christians try to tell us what we have to believe and who we have to accept as being one of us.
You missed the whole point, which is this:
There's no universal agreement on what "God" is in the first place. Which is exactly what we would expect if "God" is imaginary or a social/cultural construct.
Are there religions the force people to (publicly) conform to a definition of "God" as spelled out in a religious text? Of course there are. But even within those religions there will be different conceptions of "God" depending on the person. For example, my parents are both hard-core evangelical Christians, but my mom usually speaks of "God" as a loving Heavenly Father, while my dad usually speaks of "God" as a wrathful being that demands unquestioned obedience. In both cases, "God" is probably a projection of their own personality types. They have very different conceptions of "God" despite full agreement of the doctrines on paper.
...snip... In both cases, "God" is probably a projection of their own personality types.
I believe that is often the case.
I see it in the God-is-love crowd as well as the dour, dark-spirited fundamentalists. They tailor their perceptions of God to suit their preferences/wishes or that of those who indoctrinated them.
There's no universal agreement on what "God" is in the first place. Which is exactly what we would expect if "God" is imaginary or a social/cultural construct.
Actually...there really IS universal agreement on who he is by those that know him. The fact that non-Christians don't agree with who God is does not suggest that we are wrong. It just means that there are dissenting opinions.
Actually...there really IS universal agreement on who he is by those that know him. The fact that non-Christians don't agree with who God is does not suggest that we are wrong. It just means that there are dissenting opinions.
The Christians that post in this forum (and possibly in this very thread) don't always agree on the characteristics of God. Ergo, there isn't universal agreement as to who God is.
The Christians that post in this forum (and possibly in this very thread) don't always agree on the characteristics of God. Ergo, there isn't universal agreement as to who God is.
That really depends on what your definition of "Christian" is. It's amazing what you think "Christians" believe when you widen the definition to the point that everyone is included. Again...among actual Christians, there is universal agreement on who God is.
That really depends on what your definition of "Christian" is. It's amazing what you think "Christians" believe when you widen the definition to the point that everyone is included. Again...among actual Christians, there is universal agreement on who God is.
By very broad definition about one third of the inhabitants of this planet self-identify as Christians.
What some may not realize is that you are disavowing most of them as True Christians in order to reduce to a group that substantially agrees with your definition of god.
I used to think this way myself until I realized that my definition of god is just as subjective as everyone else's, AND that my interpretation of scripture was just as subjective.
let's see. Man made up the universe? lmao, yeah, that's it. literal atheists got the insight.
sure we have some of the traits wrong. Like "Omni-dude" is not what it is. But "nothing" is foolish too. It aint god in the bible but it aint "nothing" either. so why people ram either down our throat is weird ... oh wait, we must ram our atheist views down other people's faces and mock others because its less wrong then when "they" do it ... my bad.
everything man thinks of is "in human terms". everything. It does not mean the universe only runs by what we think, in fact to think that .....
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