The unmoral god of the bible not only condones, but threatens rape. (Jewish, verses)

[ConeyGirl52]

Originally Posted by cupper3

And I explained to you earlier using the excuse that it was cultural, which your are implying by saying "It's not moral in our world." doesn't make it moral. It never will.

Your god threatening to have women raped, in public is highly offensive, and immoral. Always was, always will be. You seem to ignore that little tidbit, and deflect on "the reason". Fundamentalists have a nasty habit of doing that.

Women should never be viewed as property. Not then. Not now.

Hi Cupper,

In what we would view as a barbaric time in history, women needed to either become War Leaders, or seek a man for cover and protection. Natural selection was a very real thing, and the physically strongest did what they wanted - took what they wanted, unless you were stronger than them.

Even if a woman became a War Leader, chances are there was a man in her army that could easily over-power her. Chances are, the strongest man in her crew - even though everyone did what she said - was her enforcer. Ancient Celtic Queen Maeve comes to mind, as an example.

I mean in theory, I totally agree with you, but in a real world of a few thousands of years ago, it is easy to see that women's liberation would be a near impossible concept to achieve.

As for my God - I don't own God, but, again I agree with you, it was also highly offensive to a barbaric King. You have men with power absolute in a lawless time. God is bringing them the law. What can God think of to grab such a man's attention, and see that he follows God's omnipotent teachings and the laws God has given him? You threaten his women. That gets him to take notice.

If God was not to threaten his women, being all-knowing and all-powerful, he just wipes man off the face of the Earth and calls it a day.

Today, we just pick up the phone and call the Police if someone murders our next door neighbor in the night, and kidnaps his wife. We catch him and take him to court. Then, we punish him.

No such thing existed back then, so God threatened to do what David had done in the night to Uriah, to David - but brining the crime out into broad daylight for everyone to see.

Even if you strip religion and faith completely from all ancient texts - Torah, Bible, Quran, Dead Sea Scrolls, not sure what else - they are still noteworthy historical texts.

[cupper3]

Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52

Hi Cupper,

In what we would view as a barbaric time in history, women needed to either become War Leaders, or seek a man for cover and protection. Natural selection was a very real thing, and the physically strongest did what they wanted - took what they wanted, unless you were stronger than them.

Even if a woman became a War Leader, chances are there was a man in her army that could easily over-power her. Chances are, the strongest man in her crew - even though everyone did what she said - was her enforcer. Ancient Celtic Queen Maeve comes to mind, as an example.

I mean in theory, I totally agree with you, but in a real world of a few thousands of years ago, it is easy to see that women's liberation would be a near impossible concept to achieve.

You may well be right, but the other reality is that the bible endorses and perpetuates those realities. Which just goes to prove it was written by men at the time who saw it as perfectly normal to have slaves and few all females as possessions, either the man's or the father's. Only an invented god would concur and subscribe that.

As for my God - I don't own God, but, again I agree with you, it was also highly offensive to a barbaric King. You have men with power absolute in a lawless time. God is bringing them the law. What can God think of to grab such a man's attention, and see that he follows God's omnipotent teachings and the laws God has given him? You threaten his women. That gets him to take notice.

If God was not to threaten his women, being all-knowing and all-powerful, he just wipes man off the face of the Earth and calls it a day.

So much for that all loving god, right?

Today, we just pick up the phone and call the Police if someone murders our next door neighbor in the night, and kidnaps his wife. We catch him and take him to court. Then, we punish him.

No such thing existed back then, so God threatened to do what David had done in the night to Uriah, to David - but brining the crime out into broad daylight for everyone to see.

Except your god condone and once again had no regard for women; they were property, and the only one to be offended and hurt by their threatened rape was David. Your god didn't give a flying fig about the women and their being violated, and humiliated in public.

Even if you strip religion and faith completely from all ancient texts - Torah, Bible, Quran, Dead Sea Scrolls, not sure what else - they are still noteworthy historical texts.

Darius, Bethlehem, Babylonia, Tyre and Jerusalem were real. Oh, and Paul and Mohammed. Most of the other individuals were figments of imaginations established to build a myth. As were the events, most of them.

The zombies walking around in Jerusalem, "seen by many" is only one case in point.

[Amaznjohn]

Originally Posted by cupper3

You may well be right, but the other reality is that the bible endorses and perpetuates those realities. Which just goes to prove it was written by men at the time who saw it as perfectly normal to have slaves and few all females as possessions, either the man's or the father's. Only an invented god would concur and subscribe that.




So much for that all loving god, right?



Except your god condone and once again had no regard for women; they were property, and the only one to be offended and hurt by their threatened rape was David. Your god didn't give a flying fig about the women and their being violated, and humiliated in public.



Darius, Bethlehem, Babylonia, Tyre and Jerusalem were real. Oh, and Paul and Mohammed. Most of the other individuals were figments of imaginations established to build a myth. As were the events, most of them.

The zombies walking around in Jerusalem, "seen by many" is only one case in point.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if the Abrahamic God would've omitted the first three commandments and added "Thou shalt treat all humans equally"?

[ConeyGirl52]

Originally Posted by cupper3

So much for that all loving god, right?.

The God of the Torah and Old Testament I don't think ever claimed to be all loving. He is represented by fire and brimstone, turning the disobedient to a pillar of salt, stuff like that. This is the God that is dealing with David. Jesus is a later descendant of David or the House of David.

God's son, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, tore the curtain in Heaven making it free for all, and not just God's 'chosen people' to enter. He accepted the food of cultures other than his own, and saved an alleged ho from being stoned. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. The angry crowd disbursed, as what man is without any sin?

Jesus is the all loving god, or sequential all loving component of the Holy Trinity.

[cupper3]

Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52

The God of the Torah and Old Testament I don't think ever claimed to be all loving. He is represented by fire and brimstone, turning the disobedient to a pillar of salt, stuff like that. This is the God that is dealing with David. Jesus is a later descendant of David or the House of David.

God's son, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, tore the curtain in Heaven making it free for all, and not just God's 'chosen people' to enter. He accepted the food of cultures other than his own, and saved an alleged ho from being stoned. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. The angry crowd disbursed, as what man is without any sin?

Jesus is the all loving god, or sequential all loving component of the Holy Trinity.

You mean the Jesus who didn't condemn slavery? That Jesus. How kind and loving of him.

The Jesus who told the parable on how a slave should be beaten. Wonderful guy, right?

[ConeyGirl52]

Originally Posted by cupper3

You mean the Jesus who didn't condemn slavery? That Jesus. How kind and loving of him.

The Jesus who told the parable on how a slave should be beaten. Wonderful guy, right?

This is my last post here Cupper, but I want to answer your question. Please do not ask me another, because I will not be answering it, I'm afraid. Nothing on you personally, it's just not a forum I can learn much in, or have civil conversation in, taken as a whole.

Just like I have to go to Darwin's time to attempt to understand him, people have to go to Jesus' time to understand him. Jesus lived at a transition point between worshiping the one God, and the birth of Christianity 4 BC - 30-33 AD. In that time, probably since the dawn of man straight through to today slavery has existed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolit...avery_timeline

The Rabbi Jesus was Jewish and lived under Levitical Law. Levitical Law is found in Leviticus in the Old Testament and in the Torah.

Every tribal and ancient culture practiced slavery. Ultimately, is it right? No.

Were the Jews racist about it? No. Jews were just as likely to be slaves as gentiles were, the difference being their Jewish masters were to set them free after 7 years. A gentile could be a slave for life, I think.

Has slavery been abolished to date? No. There are still slaves in the world and places you can go buy slaves.

The United Kingdom about a year ago passed their Modern Slavery Act of 2015. It addresses human trafficking.

Thanks for the discussion, Cupper.

Take care.

[MartinEden99]

So basically the unchanging Supreme creator of the universe adheres to, and makes rules about going to special places after death, according to mankind's morality in the bronze age. Got it.

[cupper3]

Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52

This is my last post here Cupper, but I want to answer your question. Please do not ask me another, because I will not be answering it, I'm afraid. Nothing on you personally, it's just not a forum I can learn much in, or have civil conversation in, taken as a whole.

Just like I have to go to Darwin's time to attempt to understand him, people have to go to Jesus' time to understand him. Jesus lived at a transition point between worshiping the one God, and the birth of Christianity 4 BC - 30-33 AD. In that time, probably since the dawn of man straight through to today slavery has existed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolit...avery_timeline

The Rabbi Jesus was Jewish and lived under Levitical Law. Levitical Law is found in Leviticus in the Old Testament and in the Torah.

Every tribal and ancient culture practiced slavery. Ultimately, is it right? No.

Were the Jews racist about it? No. Jews were just as likely to be slaves as gentiles were, the difference being their Jewish masters were to set them free after 7 years. A gentile could be a slave for life, I think.

Has slavery been abolished to date? No. There are still slaves in the world and places you can go buy slaves.

The United Kingdom about a year ago passed their Modern Slavery Act of 2015. It addresses human trafficking.

Thanks for the discussion, Cupper.

Take care.

I'm sorry you are removing yourself from the debate. If your god was moral, he would have in particularly spoken against the slavery that was prevalent and accepted by that bronzed age society. That god had no problem outlining a number of things that entity ruled to be immoral; theft, murder, perjury, and numerous demands on worshiping it.

That god chose not to do so. Amazingly, it was the society that spawned that idea of that god, didn't see anything immoral about slavery either.

What a coincidence. Amazing.

[arleigh]

God is not obligated to be fair from man's point of view .
God sees man from His point of view , from the inside out .
Not one thing is hidden from God, not even unspoken thought.
Jesus made that pretty clear, both in His teaching and His judgments.
The Holy Spirit Jesus provides, reinforces this fact daily..(with in those that received Him.)
Those however that seek excuses through the academics of scriptures will easily be lead around by the devil.
It was the scriptures Satan used to attempt to tempt Jesus to manipulate His Father (Matthew 4;0 , Jesus loving His Father did not base His actions on scriptures, but His Father's instruction.
One cannot obey God with out the Holy Spirit, with out the Holy Spirit ,resting in scriptures alone, one can do nothing but sin.
Repentance is turning from self govern to God's govern. Through the Holy Spirit Jesus provided.
The Holy Spirit can teach scriptures as well and does often . but in the case of some ones petty arguments with no honest hunger, there is no obligation.

[GldnRule]

Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52

This is my last post here Cupper, but I want to answer your question. Please do not ask me another, because I will not be answering it, I'm afraid. Nothing on you personally, it's just not a forum I can learn much in, or have civil conversation in, taken as a whole.

Just like I have to go to Darwin's time to attempt to understand him, people have to go to Jesus' time to understand him. Jesus lived at a transition point between worshiping the one God, and the birth of Christianity 4 BC - 30-33 AD. In that time, probably since the dawn of man straight through to today slavery has existed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolit...avery_timeline

The Rabbi Jesus was Jewish and lived under Levitical Law. Levitical Law is found in Leviticus in the Old Testament and in the Torah.

Every tribal and ancient culture practiced slavery. Ultimately, is it right? No.

Were the Jews racist about it? No. Jews were just as likely to be slaves as gentiles were, the difference being their Jewish masters were to set them free after 7 years. A gentile could be a slave for life, I think.

Has slavery been abolished to date? No. There are still slaves in the world and places you can go buy slaves.

The United Kingdom about a year ago passed their Modern Slavery Act of 2015. It addresses human trafficking.

Thanks for the discussion, Cupper.

Take care.

You have made a good decision CGirl.
Debating with those that would be so mentally strange to critique the actions (even individual specific incidents) of an entity they don't even believe exists is never going to be fruitful, and simply a waste of your time.

I may not embrace what you believe myself...but I understand that you do, and truly believe it.
If anything at all....I would simply note that I differ as to my position on the general veracity and reality of the stories. That is how I would debate it.
I don't ever see myself losing touch with my good sense and basic ability to reason to such a degree that I would argue the details of the actions of someone or something I didn't even think ever existed...not unless I suffer some mental impairment and no longer have command of my mind.

They only other explanation that makes sense, is that it is a indirect way to insult, mock, and demonstrate hatred toward others with differing viewpoints.
You are making a sensible choice to disengage.