Gay marriage destroys heterosexual marriage. (Roman, choices, existence, definition)
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Nor is it a coincidence that you're going to find more fundamentalists in such regions. Poverty, lack of education, and fundamentalism (whether Christian or Muslim or something else) go hand in hand.
But that misses the point of the articles I cited. Christianity claims to provide hope for the poor, and a moral undergirding to promote healthy marriages. It may arguably do the former, but clearly not the latter. It is a moral failure, particularly for an ideology that makes such grandiose claims for being the keeper and promoter of a superior morality and a purer and more exalted and transcendent vision of marriage.
No it certainly isn't clearly. You are drawing conclusions and assumptions based on weak evidence. Christianity is a strong foundation to a healthy marriage IF you do it God's way. That's the problem. Most people do not. A lot of people rush into marriage unprepared because they are so in love with the idea and security of being married. I do put some blame on the churches for failing to stress strong couples counseling prior to marriage.
But the real statistic I want to see is just what is the divorce rate in couples who both married as virgins. The last time I looked, it was much much lower. That's God's design. Your sexuality is the greatest physical gift you can give to another person and God's plan is for it to be shared with only one person. That creates a great bond. But since we are such a sex obsessed society, most people do not wait anymore.
Quote:
This newest study looks specifically at first sexual experience in adolescence and was conducted by Professor Anthony Paik at the University of Iowa. He explains that his "research shows that adolescent sexuality/premarital sex is associated with marital dissolution" and that a significant factor is whether the sexual experience in later adolescence was welcomed by the girl. He explains, "Adolescent sexual debut that is not completely wanted is both directly and indirectly linked to marital dissolution" which are the overwhelming majority of adolescent sexual experiences for girls.8 Seldom do they report not being pressured or forced into sex.
Paik also found that females who first had sex in their teens had roughly double the risk of divorce later in life compared to women who had their first unmarried sexual experience in their adult years.
No it certainly isn't clearly. You are drawing conclusions and assumptions based on weak evidence. Christianity is a strong foundation to a healthy marriage IF you do it God's way. That's the problem. Most people do not. A lot of people rush into marriage unprepared because they are so in love with the idea and security of being married. I do put some blame on the churches for failing to stress strong couples counseling prior to marriage.
But the real statistic I want to see is just what is the divorce rate in couples who both married as virgins. The last time I looked, it was much much lower. That's God's design. Your sexuality is the greatest physical gift you can give to another person and God's plan is for it to be shared with only one person. That creates a great bond. But since we are such a sex obsessed society, most people do not wait anymore.
Of course the study or at least the write up of the study and your words excluded all other factors that might come into play. You are intelligent enough to come up with at least ten factors that do not involve God or Satin on your own.
No idea what the fact of the divorce rate for teenage girls who do not marry the boy they first had sex with has on if two men or two women get married destroys a man and a woman's marriage. Just another opportunity to try to keep gays in their place as second class citizens and to let young gay and lesbian teenagers believe they are lesser people because you want everyone to follow your denomination's worldview.
We had no conselling from anyone about getting married and 40 years later we are still very much in love with each other, still together and neither of us believe that a God exists. Neither of us were virgins, in fact my wife had given up a baby before we got married, a person we were contacted when she was an adult with two children and now we have a larger family than before. Instead of having your god in our lives we have kindness to others, respect for those who are different and for the environment and a love for animals, art and science.
Almost my entire life is so different from what you envision a non believer to have and from my observations of those around me it is typical for non religious and luke warm religious folks.
Fundies have a distinct lack of concern for the truth.
And if one happens to be a fundy Pastor, accepting certain truths could cost him his job. So, it's important - if not particularly brave or noble - to continue mocking the "LGBTQRCXOP"* and trying to deny them equal rights.
*Viz likes to type stuff like that. He thinks it demonstrates wit.
It's because 20 years ago it was just "gay". Then it became Lesbian and Gay. Then "Transgender". Now, "*****" is actually an acceptable title.
What next? There really is no telling what letter will be added to the acronym.
And...there's another lie. Keep it up, Viz. Modern human beings have been on this planet for only about 30,000 years, marriage has been an institution for 6,000-5,000 years at best. Hardly "since time began."
How do you know that? My sources tell me marriage has been around as long as human beings.
In any event, it certainly has been around as long as our country has been in existence. So again, why would we want to go and change the definition of an institution that is a bedrock of our society in order to suit a vocal minority?
No it certainly isn't clearly. You are drawing conclusions and assumptions based on weak evidence. Christianity is a strong foundation to a healthy marriage IF you do it God's way. That's the problem. Most people do not. A lot of people rush into marriage unprepared because they are so in love with the idea and security of being married. I do put some blame on the churches for failing to stress strong couples counseling prior to marriage.
But the real statistic I want to see is just what is the divorce rate in couples who both married as virgins. The last time I looked, it was much much lower. That's God's design. Your sexuality is the greatest physical gift you can give to another person and God's plan is for it to be shared with only one person. That creates a great bond. But since we are such a sex obsessed society, most people do not wait anymore.
Quote:
This newest study looks specifically at first sexual experience in adolescence and was conducted by Professor Anthony Paik at the University of Iowa. He explains that his "research shows that adolescent sexuality/premarital sex is associated with marital dissolution" and that a significant factor is whether the sexual experience in later adolescence was welcomed by the girl. He explains, "Adolescent sexual debut that is not completely wanted is both directly and indirectly linked to marital dissolution" which are the overwhelming majority of adolescent sexual experiences for girls.8 Seldom do they report not being pressured or forced into sex.
Paik also found that females who first had sex in their teens had roughly double the risk of divorce later in life compared to women who had their first unmarried sexual experience in their adult years.
Let's look very carefully at the bolded. I don't think anyone of any belief system would argue that someone whose earliest sexual experience is consensual and at an age where they are emotionally prepared for it, is significantly more likely to have a healthier view of sex and relationships than someone who first experience was at a young age and was marginally consensual or just outright rape. That's not an argument against premarital sex, but against having sex before they are ready and willing.
Of course the study or at least the write up of the study and your words excluded all other factors that might come into play. You are intelligent enough to come up with at least ten factors that do not involve God or Satin on your own.
And yet you had no problem accepting a statistic as proof that Christians are hypocrites without looking at all the factors. I certainly didn't see you write anything about the statistic posts yesterday. Then again, as usual when it comes to attacking Christianity, atheists will almost NEVER dispute what another atheist says.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander
No idea what the fact of the divorce rate for teenage girls who do not marry the boy they first had sex with has on if two men or two women get married destroys a man and a woman's marriage. Just another opportunity to try to keep gays in their place as second class citizens and to let young gay and lesbian teenagers believe they are lesser people because you want everyone to follow your denomination's worldview.
I never said that it did have anything directly to do with gays. It was in response to the divorce statistics that atheists love to throw in our face. I do believe that sexual freedom destroys marriages and when society embraces a new standard that is steeped in promiscuity married or not then it erodes the institution of marriage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander
We had no conselling from anyone about getting married and 40 years later we are still very much in love with each other, still together and neither of us believe that a God exists. Neither of us were virgins, in fact my wife had given up a baby before we got married, a person we were contacted when she was an adult with two children and now we have a larger family than before. Instead of having your god in our lives we have kindness to others, respect for those who are different and for the environment and a love for animals, art and science.
Almost my entire life is so different from what you envision a non believer to have and from my observations of those around me it is typical for non religious and luke warm religious folks.
Well good for you, but one person's personal life experience proves nothing. Perhaps you had the fortune of never having to go through a hardship or intense physical pain. I have, and I am quite thankful that I had my Christian family to help me get through it.
Let's look very carefully at the bolded. I don't think anyone of any belief system would argue that someone whose earliest sexual experience is consensual and at an age where they are emotionally prepared for it, is significantly more likely to have a healthier view of sex and relationships than someone who first experience was at a young age and was marginally consensual or just outright rape. That's not an argument against premarital sex, but against having sex before they are ready and willing.
Plenty of people would argue against your position. You have given your body to someone else. Therefore you can no longer give yourself 100% to your future spouse. There is a deep personal closeness knowing that your spouse is the only other human being who has known you on this intimate physical level.
Plenty of people would argue against your position. You have given your body to someone else. Therefore you can no longer give yourself 100% to your future spouse. There is a deep personal closeness knowing that your spouse is the only other human being who has known you on this intimate physical level.
And they are entitled to set whatever standards they want for themselves and their future spouse. You presented the study as evidence that divorce rates are higher amongst couples that didn't do it "God's way" (ie. no premarital sex), but that is not what the study says. The full-text is hidden behind a paywall, but the abstract clearly states:
Quote:
Paik, Anthony
Journal of Marriage and Family, v73 n2 p472-485 Apr 2011
This research investigates whether first sexual intercourse during adolescence is associated with increased risk of first marriage dissolution and tests whether the results are consistent with causal or selection explanations. Drawing on a sample of 3,793 ever-married women from the 2002 National Survey of Family Growth, this study estimated event-history models of first-marriage dissolution. Results indicate that wanted sexual debut in later adolescence does not directly increase the risk of marital dissolution but is linked indirectly as a result of subsequent premarital sexual outcomes. Sexual debut that is not completely wanted or that occurs before age 16 is associated with increased risk of marital dissolution. The results suggest that the timing and context of adolescent sexual debut have important implications for marital stability.
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