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Old 04-04-2016, 08:54 PM
 
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So you believe that it is unlikely that God exists but that is not a belief and you have no system of beliefs?

And you say that I am playing word games?

LOL
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Old 04-04-2016, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,999 posts, read 13,480,828 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
How likely do you believe it is that God exists?
About the same probability as you assign to Sean the leprechaun sitting right now on your left shoulder.

You are not omniscient and you have perceptual limits. There is the barest possibility you might be unaware of Sean and have walked right past his pot of gold.

But you have no rational basis to form a belief that Sean exists ... so you don't. Because the rational default in such cases is to withhold belief until there is good reason to afford it.

Now to make Sean more like the standard Christian god ... let's suppose that Sean isn't just a little guy with a derby hat with a four-leaf clover in the band. Suppose that you have been told from infancy that Sean can grant your every wish and need if only you will just believe in him. And that he can cast you into a pot of molten gold which will magically never consume you, if you "refuse" to believe him. And suppose that you've been shamed for being defective in Sean's eyes ... lacking in faith and character. Maybe even wanting to steal his gold for yourself.

Now you still have no rational basis to form a belief in Sean ... but you sure do have an IRRATIONAL basis to do so.

Now suppose that you devote your entire life to believing in and serving Sean and telling others about him, have asked Sean for favors and he kinda-sorta seems to respond sometimes, have poured your heart out to Sean and imagined that he listens and cares ... and then some dipwad like me comes along and points out that you haven't proven Sean exists and that I reject your belief in him as invalid.

THAT is the situation theists find themselves in when they encounter an atheist.

So of course ... to get their brains around a paradigm they are unfamiliar with, they try to understand it in terms of their own belief-system. This strange unbelieving beast simply believes wrongly or has defective faith. That makes their wrongness fixable. To accept the unbeliever in Sean at his word that he sees no reason at all to believe is far, far, more terrifying and hard to rationalize away. So you will deny, and bargain, and rage against this unbelief ... try to recast it in kinder, gentler terms that gives your belief of choice some sort of hope that it can still be true.

But no ... mean, nasty ol' a-Sean-ist that I am ... I'm not having any of it.
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Old 04-04-2016, 08:56 PM
 
3,331 posts, read 2,136,915 times
Reputation: 5161
Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
So you believe that it is unlikely that God exists but that is not a belief and you have no system of beliefs?

And you say that I am playing word games?

LOL
It seems to me that you're conflating belief with faith.
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Old 04-04-2016, 08:59 PM
 
2,854 posts, read 2,052,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
I don't believe I can meaningfully assign a probability to that idea in general.
A Bayesian probablility can always be assigned to any question.
First you start with the a priori probability then factor in any additional information you might have
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Old 04-04-2016, 09:01 PM
 
2,854 posts, read 2,052,927 times
Reputation: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
About the same probability as you assign to Sean the leprechaun sitting right now on your left shoulder.

You are not omniscient and you have perceptual limits. There is the barest possibility you might be unaware of Sean and have walked right past his pot of gold.

But you have no rational basis to form a belief that Sean exists ... so you don't. Because the rational default in such cases is to withhold belief until there is good reason to afford it.

Now to make Sean more like the standard Christian god ... let's suppose that Sean isn't just a little guy with a derby hat with a four-leaf clover in the band. Suppose that you have been told from infancy that Sean can grant your every wish and need if only you will just believe in him. And that he can cast you into a pot of molten gold which will magically never consume you, if you "refuse" to believe him. And suppose that you've been shamed for being defective in Sean's eyes ... lacking in faith and character. Maybe even wanting to steal his gold for yourself.

Now you still have no rational basis to form a belief in Sean ... but you sure do have an IRRATIONAL basis to do so.

Now suppose that you devote your entire life to believing in and serving Sean and telling others about him, have asked Sean for favors and he kinda-sorta seems to respond sometimes, have poured your heart out to Sean and imagined that he listens and cares ... and then some dipwad like me comes along and points out that you haven't proven Sean exists and that I reject your belief in him as invalid.

THAT is the situation theists find themselves in when they encounter an atheist.

So of course ... to get their brains around a paradigm they are unfamiliar with, they try to understand it in terms of their own belief-system. This strange unbelieving beast simply believes wrongly or has defective faith. That makes their wrongness fixable. To accept the unbeliever in Sean at his word that he sees no reason at all to believe is far, far, more terrifying and hard to rationalize away. So you will deny, and bargain, and rage against this unbelief ... try to recast it in kinder, gentler terms that gives your belief of choice some sort of hope that it can still be true.

But no ... mean, nasty ol' a-Sean-ist that I am ... I'm not having any of it.
Dude you seriously need to chill out. Whats wrong with you?
If you believe that it is unlikely that God exists then thats fine. Thats your belief.
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Old 04-04-2016, 09:01 PM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,323,862 times
Reputation: 3023
Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
So you believe that it is unlikely that God exists but that is not a belief and you have no system of beliefs?

And you say that I am playing word games?

LOL
No system of beliefs regarding gods existence and still no answer from you. I think it is unlikely for a god to exist based both on the lack of evidence and the number of different gods.

And you are still unwilling to answer a single question nor would you answer about a definition of a god, just more and more questions from you.
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Old 04-04-2016, 09:04 PM
 
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I am neither a theist nor an atheist.
Gods existence is completely irrelevant to my existance, my view of reality, and my understanding of right and wrong.
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Old 04-04-2016, 09:04 PM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,323,862 times
Reputation: 3023
Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
Dude you seriously need to chill out. Whats wrong with you?
If you believe that it is unlikely that God exists then thats fine. Thats your belief.
Maybe he is getting tired of you basically calling him a liar over and over again.
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Old 04-04-2016, 09:07 PM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,323,862 times
Reputation: 3023
Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
I am neither a theist nor an atheist.
Gods existence is completely irrelevant to my existance, my view of reality, and my understanding of right and wrong.
Thanks for finally answering. So your belief system is of irrelevant? Is your belief system is that the coin landed on its side?
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Old 04-04-2016, 09:08 PM
 
2,854 posts, read 2,052,927 times
Reputation: 348
I don't care how the coin lands. It's irrelevant
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