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Also, Viz, although yes, more people overall in the U.S. are Christian which would seem to slate the overall numbers unfairly (that makes sense), this still points to: no, religion sure as heck does not automatically produce morality in people, nor, apparently, stop them from committing crimes; certainly it would not appear to give a leg up this way v. atheism (or non-Christian religions).
I mean there's just no way around the fact: we are overwhelmingly, majority Christian (self-identifying Christian) but being religious does not stop people from committing crimes (not just sex crimes but all crime), ergo, obviously does not instill morality.
If it did instill morality, then we, being an overwhelmingly majority Christian nation, would have among the lowest crime rates in the entire world. In reality, it appears to work the other way - the least religious nations in the world often have the lowest crime rates at least among first-world nations.
Therefore, to get back to my original request which you have ignored, it is not only reprehensible that that "atheist" molested six boys, it is comparatively rare and therefore all the more shocking. May I see the link? That's the request you've ignored. I'd love to know what I can do about this issue, so please provide the link.
That's terrible and serious, do you have a link to this story?
It's all the more shocking for its rarity, as, AFAIK, a considerably secure numeric majority of sex offenders self report as having been, and currently being lifelong Christians. Let me know if you need that link, I'm on my Kindle right now.
There was a thread on it in A/A I recall. ah..no, here on R/S
The point is not to blame such doings on religion, but to question the often heard suggestion that unbelief (and thus no morality) will lead to wrongdoing. There is also a secondary question about the idea that having faith makes one a better person.
I don't for myself feel that that picking up the odd bod caught with hands where they shouldn't be proves anything either way, but it does undermine the claim (sometimes argued) that we need religion, true or not, simply to stop civilization collapsing. The only real question is whether any religion is true.
Also, Viz, although yes, more people overall in the U.S. are Christian which would seem to slate the overall numbers unfairly (that makes sense), this still points to: no, religion sure as heck does not automatically produce morality in people, nor, apparently, stop them from committing crimes; certainly it would not appear to give a leg up this way v. atheism (or non-Christian religions).
I mean there's just no way around the fact: we are overwhelmingly, majority Christian (self-identifying Christian) but being religious does not stop people from committing crimes (not just sex crimes but all crime), ergo, obviously does not instill morality.
If it did instill morality, then we, being an overwhelmingly majority Christian nation, would have among the lowest crime rates in the entire world. In reality, it appears to work the other way - the least religious nations in the world often have the lowest crime rates at least among first-world nations.
Considering the fact that YOU GUYS are the ones defining who is and is not a Christian it is no surprise to us that "Christians" commit those crimes.
There was a thread on it in A/A I recall. The point is not to blame such doings on religion, but to question the often heard suggestion that unbelief (and thus no morality) will lead to wrongdoing. There is also a secondary question about the idea that having faith makes one a better person.
I don't for myself feel that that picking up the odd bod caught with hands where they shouldn't be proves anything either way, but it does undermine the claim that we need religion, rue or not, simply to stop civilization collapsing. The only real question is whether any religion is true.
Considering the fact that YOU GUYS are the ones defining who is and is not a Christian it is no surprise to us that "Christians" commit those crimes.
I sure am not, LOL. If the person says "I'm Christian," there's my criterion right there. S/he's Christian.
It seems to me that YOU GUYS (heh heh!) are the ones saying, retroactively, "That person was NEVER a Christian" as you scuttle backward away from any link/association.
So who's the one saying who's Christian and who's not? I'm the one definitely not making that judgment, I'm believing people to their word and in fact, even the link I provided was to a study that was self-reported.
Considering the fact that YOU GUYS are the ones defining who is and is not a Christian it is no surprise to us that "Christians" commit those crimes.
Everyone keeps correcting you on that. We do not defined who is and who is not a Christian. That is up to each person to do so for themselves. You can claim that you do not think they are a good Christian but you cannot claim that someone who labels them self as a Christian is actually an atheist or a Buddists. You seem to think that we are doing the labelling, no it is the person themselves. Why is that difficult to comprehend?
I sure am not, LOL. If the person says "I'm Christian," there's my criterion right there. S/he's Christian.
Exactly. You're saying that a "Christian" is simply someone that claims affiliation, no matter what they ACTUALLY believe or do. You reject what actual Christians say is a Christian. What a shocker when the guy that attended VBS once when he was 7 and has never been back since, or the guy that stopped going to church after he was confirmed in 1978, or the guy that goes to church maybe twice a year is a criminal!
You can claim that you do not think they are a good Christian but you cannot claim that someone who labels them self as a Christian is actually an atheist or a Buddists.
Exactly. You're saying that a "Christian" is simply someone that claims affiliation, no matter what they ACTUALLY believe or do. You reject what actual Christians say is a Christian. What a shocker when the guy that attended VBS once when he was 7 and has never been back since, or the guy that stopped going to church after he was confirmed in 1978, or the guy that goes to church maybe twice a year is a criminal!
Oh! So you know what people actually believe? Deep down inside?
You're the judge of that?
As far as what they "do," I thought one of the things that "real Christians" do is make mistakes, or do you guys no longer do that?
As far as your examples above, the study I linked was for people who professed a lifelong association with Christianity (there were various categories they could choose from) and therefore your examples don't actually apply here.
Exactly. You're saying that a "Christian" is simply someone that claims affiliation, no matter what they ACTUALLY believe or do. You reject what actual Christians say is a Christian. What a shocker when the guy that attended VBS once when he was 7 and has never been back since, or the guy that stopped going to church after he was confirmed in 1978, or the guy that goes to church maybe twice a year is a criminal!
Viz, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.
You've often posted that you, me, everybody - including newborn babies - are all just sinful bags of flesh infecting the planet.
Yet Christians who commit crimes aren't Christians - in Vizioworld.
Are Muslims who commit crimes still Muslims?
How about Animists?
Oh! I betcha think Atheists who commit crimes are DEFINITELY Atheists!
Sheesh.
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it is not only reprehensible that that "atheist" molested six boys, it is comparatively rare and therefore all the more shocking. May I see the link? That's the request you've ignored. I'd love to know what I can do about this issue, so please provide the link.
