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Exactly. You're saying that a "Christian" is simply someone that claims affiliation, no matter what they ACTUALLY believe or do. You reject what actual Christians say is a Christian. What a shocker when the guy that attended VBS once when he was 7 and has never been back since, or the guy that stopped going to church after he was confirmed in 1978, or the guy that goes to church maybe twice a year is a criminal!
What else could we do? If someone claims to be Christian, Jewish, Muslim or atheist, what can we do but give them benefit of the doubt? What else do you do?
If after discussion, it seems that they seem to lack some fundamental (*ahem*) basic that defines the claim - say an "atheist" said they believed in a divine intelligent creator of the universe - THEN you could say: "You ain't no atheist".
If a Christian said they didn't believe that Jesus was the actual son of God or rose from the dead, and said they followed the Quran and believed Muhammad was God's prophet, THEN you could say: "They ain't no Christian". But until some evidence comes out, of course we will accept what they say, subject to clarification.
But the point is that the reasons for declaring someone not a Real Christian such as doing something too bad to be papered over or ( ) giving up the Faith are deciding for someone else whether they are (or were) or not on what seems to be damage limitation. Based perhaps on theology, but nevertheless,damage limitation that seems just a bit too convenient.
I read a remark attributed by some Church Minister or other to the effect that the Church is the only army that shoots its own wounded.
Exactly. You're saying that a "Christian" is simply someone that claims affiliation, no matter what they ACTUALLY believe or do. You reject what actual Christians say is a Christian. What a shocker when the guy that attended VBS once when he was 7 and has never been back since, or the guy that stopped going to church after he was confirmed in 1978, or the guy that goes to church maybe twice a year is a criminal!
The problem is it comes down to a matter of "Christian until proven otherwise". People who identify as Christian and have given no reason for others to doubt it, there is no reason not to believe them until their dirty laundry is aired. They've spent years building trust and a good reputation as Christians; how is an outsider supposed spot the fakers if Christians themselves can't? Especially when they are active in ministry and the church community.
Yes. it's a legitimate question. Why can't I say that someone that doesn't actually believe or hold to the teachings of a religion are not of that religion? I can and I do say that. I'm sorry if you disagree.
Yes. it's a legitimate question. Why can't I say that someone that doesn't actually believe or hold to the teachings of a religion are not of that religion? I can and I do say that. I'm sorry if you disagree.
You can say it and not be right, unless you're either God or psychic.
But can you say it? You can say anything. I can say I'm purple with green stripes. Prove I'm not.
You can say it and not be right, unless you're either God or psychic.
But can you say it? You can say anything. I can say I'm purple with green stripes. Prove I'm not.
Yet, you're saying that people are Christians, regardless of what they believe or do.....
Weird..you seem to think YOU are either God or psychic...but you get bent out of shape when I simply point out a person's actions are not consistent with the faith.
Yet, you're saying that people are Christians, regardless of what they believe or do.....
Weird..you seem to think YOU are either God or psychic...but you get bent out of shape when I simply point out a person's actions are not consistent with the faith.
No, I'm not saying people are Christians "regardless of what they say or do."
I'm saying they tell me they're Christian, and since I'm not psychic, I believe them.
I definitely am neither God nor psychic...which is why I'm listening to the only information source I DO have: the Christian.
As far as "...regardless of what they do," again, are you saying a person proves she or he is not Christian by messing up, making mistakes, not being able to get a handle on something, etc.? Is that your window into a person's soul: if s/he does something bad she couldn't have been a Christian because Christians are no longer capable of erring?
Are you now inerrant? I thought such a thing was impossible and that was WHY one "needs" Christ. Was I wrong about that? If so, then we finally have some REAL good news! It's not 100% that every person on earth "needs" Jesus. We can just be ourselves now.
God's going to be pretty surprised, though, Viz. Brace yourself.
No, I'm not saying people are Christians "regardless of what they say or do."
Check the quote again....I never said you said that.
Quote:
I'm saying they tell me they're Christian, and since I'm not psychic, I believe them.
I definitely am neither God nor psychic...which is why I'm listening to the only information source I DO have: the Christian.
I'd suggest you ought to actually look at what the religion teaches, and if you don't know, perhaps you ought to defer to an expert...maybe......someone who has been to school for it and actually TEACHES IT....maybe a PASTOR? Yah...that might be an idea.....
Quote:
As far as "...regardless of what they do," again, are you saying a person proves she or he is not Christian by messing up, making mistakes, not being able to get a handle on something, etc.? Is that your window into a person's soul: if s/he does something bad she couldn't have been a Christian because Christians are no longer capable of erring?
I'm saying that a person's life shows what they actually believe. If a person lives as if they have no belief, chances are they don't.
Yes. it's a legitimate question. Why can't I say that someone that doesn't actually believe or hold to the teachings of a religion are not of that religion? I can and I do say that. I'm sorry if you disagree.
Next 5ime I run into a conversation where the person tells me they are a Christian I will ask for their copy of approval from you. Yes you can day anything you want but no credibility if you are expecting us to take your word over that of the person involved.
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) giving up the Faith are deciding for someone else whether they are (or were) or not on what seems to be damage limitation. Based perhaps on theology, but nevertheless,damage limitation that seems just a bit too convenient.
Was I wrong about that? If so, then we finally have some REAL good news! It's not 100% that every person on earth "needs" Jesus. We can just be ourselves now. 
