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i don't do philosophy and i have no interest in discussing solipsism.
the soul is the part of us that is the interface between our human self and God.
part of being created in the image and likeness of God, is to learn and use our ability to create. We work in partnership with God. It is a relationship.
So the theory goes. What evidence do you have to support it? Since you are here making what is evidently a faith -claim to us, we need something more than just say -so before we accept it. NDE's and regression exercises in fact serve as evidence of anything other than they do happen.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 06-22-2016 at 07:00 AM..
So we have a couple of faith - claims without anything to back them up:- God and a soul ..and an accusation of blinkered thinking if you don't accept them without question. Isn't that good enough for you, Mordant?
No, picky person that I am, it just isn't good enough :-\
you picked it: all of it, your parents, your family, your economic status, your challenges, your obstacles, all of them are custom designed by you at the soul level prior to this incarnation, to give you exactly the circumstances needed for you to grow and advance
as long you feel any thing is "unfair," as long as you blame others for anything, including blaming God, then you are not taking responsibility for your own life. stop being a victim.
No, I didn't pick it. A river doesn't pick it's bank, a flame does not pick it's candle. And neither do they pick the weather.
So now it isn't hostage will, but amnesia will. Regardless, it's still not really free will.
So what you are saying is that you think it is moral (and not morally reprehensible) that someone who is not as aware as an Ultimate Creator/Omniscient Being should be allowed (and not properly educated against) to pick all of their good and bad circumstances, and then "pick" to not be aware of having picked them, in order that they are forced (or get a chance to) grow and advance within some make-shift system of ignorance? I don't think so.
How can anyone say that if someone gets amnesia they should NOT blame their parents or society (who are perhaps omnipotent, in the mythical situation being discussed) for letting them just "choose" to give themselves amnesia. And that these amnesiac people, completely unaware of what is going on or how to do it, should be harassed and expected to keep up with the plans and "responsibilities" of their old self, which is now dead and gone? It just doesn't make any sense to have stock-holm syndrome nor blame-the-victim mentality.
I am TRUELY NOT the person I've forgotten I ever was, especially since this body has a well-oiled mind which doesn't need any "reincarnation" airy parasites to piggy back off of it. It would be best if responsibility is placed at it's most proper ULTIMATE CAUSE.
What a cycle of misery, misery in the beginning, misery in the middle, and misery at the end. Good is merely interspersed, and thus not optimized. That is reincarnation.
it would be like a grown adult saying that your parents made you so they are responsible for you. so you refuse to get a job and act like an adult, and instead stay in the basement of your parents house when you're 30 watching TV and playing computer games all day because you didn't ask to be born.
an adult takes responsibility for their life, and does not sit around blaming others, including blaming god
Are parents "really" no longer "responsible" for their offering after the contrived age of 16,18, or 21?
A person is made by parents and molded by the environment (weather conditions, social conditions, parents, society, etc), therefore the parents are ultimately responsible for the existence of their child and how hard they worked at molding the child into adulthood. Yes, if the child is in the basement, it is undoubtedly the fault of all involved.
an adult takes responsibility for their life, and takes responsibility enough to think and judge properly, including the pure wonderful and eye-opening logic of placing ultimate blame on the ultimate cause. No need not to get a job, just because a purposeless eternal being (among the infinite possible eternal beings) is guilty as charged.
still blaming others, still not taking responsibility
your soul knows exactly why you chose to be born into these conditions
the part of you that refuses to connect with your soul, or even admit that you have one, is the part that would rather blame others than take responsibility for your own growth and advancement
the places in your life that are most uncomfortable for you, the challenges, the problems, the obstacles, the difficulties.....that's where the potential for growth is. look at the places where you blame others, where you resist taking responsibility and reject self-improvement.
The only person blaming others here is you. Depending on the existence of an ultimate cause or many ultimate causes or a few ultimate causes along side other eternal causes that didn't cause anything further, they are ultimately responsible or not. If they don't take responsibility that is their choice as purposeless beings that have to come up with their own reasons, rationals, and purposes for things.
No one here has been resisting responsibility or rejecting self-improvement, we are merely not ignoring the truthful implications that your stories would logically lead to.
No, I didn't pick it. A river doesn't pick it's bank, a flame does not pick it's candle. And neither do they pick the weather.
So now it isn't hostage will, but [b]amnesia will. Regardless, it's still not really free will.
So what you are saying is that you think it is moral (and not morally reprehensible) that someone who is not as aware as an Ultimate Creator/Omniscient Being should be allowed (and not properly educated against) to pick all of their good and bad circumstances, and then "pick" to not be aware of having picked them, in order that they are forced (or get a chance to) grow and advance within some make-shift system of ignorance? I don't think so.
How can anyone say that if someone gets amnesia they should NOT blame their parents or society (who are perhaps omnipotent, in the mythical situation being discussed) for letting them just "choose" to give themselves amnesia. And that these amnesiac people, completely unaware of what is going on or how to do it, should be harassed and expected to keep up with the plans and "responsibilities" of their old self, which is now dead and gone? It just doesn't make any sense to have stock-holm syndrome nor blame-the-victim mentality.
I am TRUELY NOT the person I've forgotten I ever was, especially since this body has a well-oiled mind which doesn't need any "reincarnation" airy parasites to piggy back off of it. It would be best if responsibility is placed at it's most proper ULTIMATE CAUSE.
What a cycle of misery, misery in the beginning, misery in the middle, and misery at the end. Good is merely interspersed, and thus not optimized. That is reincarnation.
it's not misery, it's just a high level of personal responsibility.
which is the best incentive there is for doing the right thing.
what you put out there in terms of how you treat others, comes back to you.
either in this lifetime or another life time.
the buck stops here. pretty simple.
why is it misery to have a high level of accountability for your every thought, speech, action and feeling?
that is free will in a nutshell: what you choose to think, speak, feel, and do each day and each moment.
will you rob a bank or get a job? go to prison or go to the library? use gentle words or harsh words? find joy or find fault?
your soul is the part of you that remembers all your lifetimes, and custom-designed this incarnation to give you the optimum opportunity to advance and develop----depending on how you use your free will in responding to the circumstances that face you in your daily life, both large and small.
why the amnesia? so you would when faced with choices try to do the right thing, that which grows you into your best self. you can't be coerced into doing the right thing. you have to choose to do it. choose not to cheat on your taxes. choose not to cheat on your wife. choose to be honest in your business dealings. your old self is not "dead and gone." the previous bodies may be, but your soul is still you, lifetime after lifetime, incarnation after incarnation. Your soul enters the body at birth, and leaves the body at death. Progress gained is never lost. but you keep coming back if there's unfinished business.
so it's not "why should i take the fall for something someone else did who's dead now" but rather you cleaning up a mess that you yourself created, or rectifiying a situation that you now have the opportunity to behave in a better way than previously. we keep doing it because our soul wants to grow and advance.
the deck is stacked in your favor. that is reincarnation. but only if a person takes responsibility, and doesn't blame others, including their current circumstances or previous lives. the deck is stacked in your favor because you realize how much power you have to change your circumstances through your (yes free will) in how you respond to whatever is facing you.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 06-22-2016 at 10:07 PM..
useful questions to ask yourself then are "why would i choose this" "what does this situation ask of me" "what is this situation asking me to become" "my soul must have had a really good reason for putting me in this circumstance, what could it possibly be?"
it IS you. it is the part of you that has your best interests at heart. it is the part of you that is wise and kind and good and smart and sees from the highest perspective what brings you joy and delight and fulfills your hearts desires, and is trying gently to point you in that direction.
Such questions might be psychologically useful in order to gain a positive perspective of situations that you actually truly had no control over, but they wouldn't be realistically useful otherwise when it comes to discerning objectively and provably true circumstances.
Regardless, the past is responsible for decisions in the past made for a new and different future, an ultimate cause (or causes) are responsible ultimately.
Meh ... that's the same arguments that's made for god being in charge. "Mysterious Ways", best interests ... anything to explain why bereavement, tragedy, disease, or want are "in your best interests" or even "gentle".
The best explanation for such things as that they just "are". That way there is no need for god-loathing or self-loathing, and best of all, no excusing suffering as somehow ennobling or necessary. No need to take it personally, no cognitive dissonance, no confusion.
..snip...
I just thought of that, a sadistic oppressor (in Tzaph's reincarnation mythology that he holds dear) could simply "blame the victim" and expect/demand "stock-holm syndrome" from the victim. YOU (ACTUALLY YOUR PAST-LIFE) CHOSE FOR ME TO TORTURE YOU (YOU CURRENT-LIFE) SO THAT YOU (YOUR PAST-LIFE) COULD GROW...
This is the evil problem I see in reincarnation beliefs and Hindu Bibliolatry,
Quote:
Vishnu/Krisha explains to a Famous Hindu Knight that it's o.k. to kill his uncles and cousins in a civil war because that is what they were born for (what their past-lives and Brahma/Vishnu "choose" for them) and they'll move on as properly planned but only if he kills them in civil war as they deserve because of their past lifes and rebellion (and because otherwise he will be killed), and as is a mercy because after death they get a better chance to "Grow."
Are parents "really" no longer "responsible" for their offering after the contrived age of 16,18, or 21? A person is made by parents and molded by the environment (weather conditions, social conditions, parents, society, etc), therefore the parents are ultimately responsible for the existence of their child and how hard they worked at molding the child into adulthood. Yes, if the child is in the basement, it is undoubtedly the fault of all involved.
yes.
the greatest gift we give our loved ones is to allow them the dignity of being capable humans making their own choices and dealing with the natural consequences of those choices. we never stop loving them, and yes we help, but we don't do it for them, otherwise we are crippling them. if we keep doing it for them, they never grow into and develop their own talents, gifts, abilities, and strengths. if we think for them, they never learn to think, and in the bargain they become surly and resentful because they are kept infantilized. there is no dignity in that. it is demeaning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth
an adult takes responsibility for their life, and takes responsibility enough to think and judge properly, including the pure wonderful and eye-opening logic of placing ultimate blame on the ultimate cause. No need not to get a job, just because a purposeless eternal being (among the infinite possible eternal beings) is guilty as charged.
I just thought of that, a sadistic oppressor (in Tzaphs reincarnation mythology that he holds dear) could simply "blame the victim" and expect/demand "stock-holm syndrome" from the victim. YOU (ACTUALLY YOUR PAST-LIFE) CHOSE FOR ME TO TORTURE YOU (YOU CURRENT-LIFE) SO THAT YOU (YOUR PAST-LIFE) COULD GROW...
This is the evil problem I see in reincarnation beliefs .... Such gymnastics ultimately excuse any action.
no, that is not what it says at all. it is not about blaming the victim.
if you assault someone, then you are responsible for the crime. period.
law and order reigns and the human system of justice is still in place, none of that disappears or changes. we are still humans in this lifetime following human laws.
however we can in addition (not instead of; in addition) view from the soul level, if a person seeks to grow and understand and advance, and not stay stuck in victim mode, or feel life is so unfair and why is this happening and i don't deserve this, and just not get beaten down by it all, or become vindictive cynical vengeful homicidal bitter, or any number of other life-draining stuck places, or blame others for everything.
it's viewing the circumstances of your life from two different planes at the same time. it's not an either or. it's a both at the same time. so if i grew up as a child in a home that was chaotic and violent and abusive and not safe for a small person (which i did), then 100% absolutely that is not my fault as a child. Victims of child abuse, (or rape, or other crimes) are NOT EVER to be blamed in the way you are suggesting. Perpetrators are responsible for their crimes 100% and the full weight of the justice system needs to recognize this.
however as an adult for me to heal from growing up in an abusive family, and for me at age 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 to re-claim my own dignity and my own life, and my own health and well being, i have to STOP being a victim. so the seeing from the soul perspective is for a person to use internally only for their own growth, understanding, healing, self-development, and advancement. It is never projected onto someone else. It would be the height of insensitivity to tell anyone in dire straits "you brought this upon yourself."
however i can internally see my own circumstances from this perspective. not as a way of harsh blame or mean-spirited cruelness (as you suggest in your post). but as a way of enlarged perspective and deeper understanding.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 06-22-2016 at 10:53 PM..
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