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Folks, we now have a new definition of Christian - an atheist who was once a Christian. Come to think of it....I believe I heard that Believers do not and cannot believe that we really disbelieve. In any case, this means that Matt Dillahunty gets to heaven, and the Pope doesn't because he didn't believe the right denomination.
It's tantamount to them saying we have no right to our beliefs.
In the letter to Hebrews it says that anyone who leaves the fellowship was never really a part of it to begin with. The way that Christians interpret it now, I would agree with that interpretation.
I was never really a part of the ex-addictive/ex-abusive personality that is required to be a true part of THAT fellowship.
In the letter to Hebrews it says that anyone who leaves the fellowship was never really a part of it to begin with. The way that Christians interpret it now, I would agree with that interpretation.
I was never really a part of the ex-addictive/ex-abusive personality that is required to be a true part of THAT fellowship.
Well gee...if the bible said it, it must be true. Now go get on the ark.
Thrill, I'm sure you know that is not true of all Christians. Mainly just those who are (or like myself, were) of a more "fundamentalist" mindset.
I've become a pretty pragmatic person when it comes to religion. If your loss of "Christian" faith has benefited you, then I'm happy for you. For myself, it was a necessary step in the process of releasing me from irrational ways of thinking that were very detrimental to my mental health. In my experience, not all people (not even all fundamentalists) take their religion to heart in a way that is harmful to themselves or others, however, and it benefits them in ways that are important to them. I'm curious if you would agree with that?
Yes, it has benefited me tremendously, Pleroo. I was grieving when I was a Christian. "Why isn't God answering prayers???????? Why doesn't Jesus communicate with me??????" Then after I learned how corrupt Christianity's beginnings were, I realized I was participating in a dead religion. I threw the monkey off my back and have never regretted it one moment. No more getting on my knees to pray prayers that I knew were never going to get answered. No more giving tithes to corrupt pastors in it only for the buck.
Yes, I have always said that if the Christian religion benefits you, then stick with it--because at the end of the day it's not about how Jesus is going to benefit you directly (get you out of a jam financially, for example or cure your dying child of cancer; he's not going to) but how you benefit spiritually from believing Jesus is there and he's got your back. Short version: don't serve Jesus, let Jesus serve you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Funny you would say in the quiet of your room because that IS where He has spoken to me in full sentences...and picture me not breathing, stunned and motionless, not even blinking ...
first x effected for 2 full years dramatically Oct 2005...being aware also of the electric
charge in the room, the barometric pressure change, goes hand in hand when
the Divine Presence is felt or that 'veil' lifts.
So Miss Hepburn, why do you think God talks to you and He doesn't talk to me when we both want the same thing: to communicate with a power higher than ourselves? Am I insincere? Does God favor some over others in contradiction of the Bible? Many former Christians here will tell you they prayed for years and never heard a peep from God. Other staunch Christians carry on whole conversations with Jesus and Jesus talks back to them in an audible voice. What's your assessment of how that happens?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
It is not possible to love God if you do not love each other. But when you love one another you are "conceived by God" who IS agape love and you know God whether or not you understand it. You know and have repeatedly said that we have no basis to determine what actually happens after our physical death and that is correct. But those of us who KNOW (personally) that God IS agape love use the characteristics of agape love to evaluate what is consistent with that love. Given my understanding of the inherently vibratory nature of our Reality, those things you resonate with will be your fate, those things dissonant will not. The parts of your Spirit (character) that are dissonant with the unified field (consciousness of God) that establishes our Reality will be refined out as dross ( I do not know if they can be "re-tuned" to love). The parts of your Spirit (character) that are resonant will be joined with the whole Cosmic Orchestra. Love is the key, both literally and metaphorically, for the Cosmic Symphony we are playing.
I suppose I don't place the same emphasis on "love" that you and Pleroo do, Mystic. My "thing" is to treat everybody with respect when they deserve it and do unto others exactly what they do unto me. If someone hits me, I don't turn the other cheek, I hit back if the person isn't bigger than me. If somebody sends me a birthday card, I send them one. If they buy me a gift I buy them one. If they ignore me I ignore them. And there are many shades of gray in there but that is the basic rule I play by, except for beggars. I go out of my way to get them a hot meal if I can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
You are treating the Christian narrative as a historical one but it is a spiritual one. You seem unable or unwilling to comprehend the difference.
The historical narrative is all I've got, Mystic. Since God doesn't communicate with me all I can do is look at history. If Jesus and the apostles were well-represented in the historic record like they should be then Id probably still be a Christian even if God didn't communicate with me because at least I'd be assured that the gospels were written by the guys who actually hung around with him.
But the historic record doesn't show Jesus or the 12 apostles. It does show 12 zodiacs who the apostles were modeled after.
It also shows that Christianity grew very slowly 30-70 CE and exploded after 70 CE when the temple was destroyed. The reason: the displaced Christianized Jews had no more place to offer their animal sacrifices. They needed a sacrifice that would be a permanent, one time sacrifice to cover their sins and thus Jesus Christ became their mascot, their one-time sacrifice for the eternal forgiveness of sins. It's a fascinating trip through history to see how the legend of Jesus as a one-time sacrifice for sins displaced the need for annual animal sacrifices.
The historical narrative is all I've got, Mystic. Since God doesn't communicate with me all I can do is look at history. If Jesus and the apostles were well-represented in the historic record like they should be then Id probably still be a Christian even if God didn't communicate with me because at least I'd be assured that the gospels were written by the guys who actually hung around with him.
Everything that occurred in history that we know about turns into a story. Today, all we know about anything in the past is obscured into a story frame. Even our own memories get transformed. Religious people accept their story because it has a deeper meaning that the surface story describes. Just the way that non-religious people accept an allegedly true story, for the same reasons. Every figure turns into an archetype character. We are all the same species.
Everything that occurred in history that we know about turns into a story. Today, all we know about anything in the past is obscured into a story frame. Even our own memories get transformed. Religious people accept their story because it has a deeper meaning that the surface story describes. Just the way that non-religious people accept an allegedly true story, for the same reasons. Every figure turns into an archetype character. We are all the same species.
I suppose different approaches work for different people. Which is why idiot Lane Craig cannot say with justification "Everybody innately knows Jesus and longs to accept him but their sinful nature prevents them from doing so until the Holy Spirit moves their heart" or some such nonsense. He's trying to say that a pygmy in Africa who has never heard of Christianity or Jesus knows Jesus in his heart. Utter rubbish.
I know Harry Potter is not a historical figure because he only appears in novels, not history. Thomas Jefferson has appeared in novels too, but we also have a document called the Declaration of Independence signed by him in Washington DC. I can look at that document and know that somebody real signed it. I cannot do that for Jesus so for me Jesus remains a mythical figure upon which a religion was built over many centuries, same as Buddhism and B'hai-ism.
In the letter to Hebrews it says that anyone who leaves the fellowship was never really a part of it to begin with. The way that Christians interpret it now, I would agree with that interpretation.
I was never really a part of the ex-addictive/ex-abusive personality that is required to be a true part of THAT fellowship.
First John 2:19 declares, “They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.”
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Now go get on the ark.
