Why I Lost My Christian Faith (preach, grace, hell, church)
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For Mystic to back up his claims about Jesus. He keeps saying he has presented proof and we're just too arrogant to see it.
Why does it matter? I don't think Mystic even believes it matters whether or not anyone believes what he does about Jesus. He knows I don't, and he's never given me any reason to believe he thinks I should.
Why does it matter? I don't think Mystic even believes it matters whether or not anyone believes what he does about Jesus. He knows I don't, and he's never given me any reason to believe he thinks I should.
A believer in what? God? Sure. But I don't think Mystic conflates a belief in God with the need to believe anything about Jesus. Which seems to be what Thrill is doing.
A believer in what? God? Sure. But I don't think Mystic conflates a belief in God with the need to believe anything about Jesus. Which seems to be what Thrill is doing.
Is that the case Thrill? Did you conclude since there was no evidence of the Christian God then therefore it was unlikely for there to be a God at all?
Is that the case Thrill? Did you conclude since there was no evidence of the Christian God then therefore it was unlikely for there to be a God at all?
Did you skip a step?
he's a deist.
pantheism and deist line up with observations. some people freak out over the leters 't-h-i-e-s-t" and "g-o-d'.
Is that the case Thrill? Did you conclude since there was no evidence of the Christian God then therefore it was unlikely for there to be a God at all?
Did you skip a step?
No, actually, I think he decided that because there was no Jesus, God doesn't give a crap about people. Sorry, my bad for misrepresenting his beliefs. It was unintentional. In my mind, a deist God is the functional equivalent of a non-existent God.
Mystic, did you read my post #649? I'm practically begging you to offer me something to change my mind. But you don't bother to offer me anything. All you say is I have an all-or-nothing attitude.
OFFER ME SOMETHING TO CHANGE MY MIND!! Instead of just repeating, "Your mind cannot be changed, Thrill. I give up." Would Jesus give up on me? Has Jesus given up on me?
Perhaps you missed my explanation of the origin of my adoption of the Christ narrative, Thrill. My encounter in deep meditation was unmistakable. The unconditional love, acceptance, joy, and Oneness of the consciousness I encountered eliminated my atheism instantly. My decades-long efforts to understand and explain to my intellect involved searching science and searching the spiritual fossil record (ancient writings speculating about God). The descriptions revealed in the Jesus narrative about the nature of God as Agape love exactly matched the consciousness I encountered. That combined with my Synthesis of the science that provided plausible hypotheses for what I encountered led to my adoption of the Savior template that is ubiquitous throughout the spiritual fossil record. It had nothing to do with the things in the current narrative that you object to which are based on the misconceptions, unsupported premises about God, and expectations about God's participation in human affairs. My experiences drive my certainty and acceptance of the Savior narrative as demonstrated unambiguously by Jesus in the Bible as the most sophisticated and reasonable (as reinterpreted by me,)
No one has given up on you, Thrill, least of all God or Jesus. But you have cut yourself off from them by your change from unrealistic expectations to NO expectations at all. You say you do not pray or meditate so how do you expect to ever receive ANY sign from God or Jesus? You seem to be operating on the mistaken notion that what God wants from us is belief, but belief only provides the motive to BECOME a loving human being. God wants us to become loving human beings and reproduce (grow) His consciousness (what we call our growing or expanding universe). WHY we become a loving human being is not as important as whether or not we DO become a loving human being. Of course, there are certain motives that corrupt the desired outcome, such as fear of Hell, or obedience for obedience sake or for reward, or to avoid punishment, etc. But in the final analysis, what matters is whether or not we are truly loving human beings whose consciousness resonates (however imperfectly) with Christ's perfect Agape love (Grace).
To specifically answer your question about indisputable evidence, if there were such, your actual state of mind would NOT necessarily reflect what you had become because it would be driven by absolute knowledge. It is only because we do NOT know that our faith reveals what we have actually become.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 03-02-2019 at 08:51 PM..
he's a deist.
pantheism and deist line up with observations. some people freak out over the leters 't-h-i-e-s-t" and "g-o-d'.
but they fit what physics is showing.
Actually, panENtheism fits best, Arach, since it accounts for the transcendence of our imagination over the physics of our Reality. Our consciousness establishes an environment wherein the laws of physics need not apply in our imaginations. That transcends the material Reality.
Is that the case Thrill? Did you conclude since there was no evidence of the Christian God then therefore it was unlikely for there to be a God at all?
Did you skip a step?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
No, actually, I think he decided that because there was no Jesus, God doesn't give a crap about people. Sorry, my bad for misrepresenting his beliefs. It was unintentional. In my mind, a deist God is the functional equivalent of a non-existent God.
No, L8, I believe there is a higher power of some sort. It's definitely not the Christian god, yahweh. I've got him pegged as a pagan god made up by the ancient Hebrews. He fits all the criteria of a man-made god. Here's Dawkins assessment of yahweh's human attributes. I think Dawkins got it pretty accurately:
Quote:
Narcissistic. Yahweh likes to be praised. Sociopath / Psychopath. Yahweh is probably the greatest serial killer of all time. Exclusionary and corrupt. Yahweh has favourites. Disorganized and slap dash. There is much evidence of overkill (great flood,etc)
It's a little more succinct here:
Quote:
The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.
All those adjective fit yahweh, sadly. In this respect he's no different than Zeus or Jupiter.
So the higher power I believe in doesn't do all this murderous nonsense. He's just out there somewhere and we may or may not meet him when we die. I don't know.
Now, Pleroo: There was no Jesus, son of God come to earth to die for our sins and his death cleanses us yada yada. Never happened. Maybe there was an ordinary man named Jesus who died, period. I don't know. Again we have no historic record for him, just fables.
And you're right, a deist God "functionally" IS like a non-existent God if He sits there and does nothing. But I think He's there because someone had make this incredibly complex universe and everything in it including us. That's as far as I can get theologically with all this.
But you are laissez-faire with all this, Pleroo. None of the Christians' shenanigans irk you like they do me. Christians tell lies to win people over to their religion. They have been for the last 2000 years. I am trying to stop greenhorns from falling into their honey-trap by telling people Jesus loves them so much he died for them. Absolute bunk. I'm trying to save people from the Christian lies. That's all.
Now I'm reading Mystic's response to my post No 648 now.
But just for the record here's the dilemma I gave to Mystic:
Quote:
If Jesus was the Son of God, then God would have left indisputable evidence of Jesus. If Jesus was NOT the son of God, then God would NOT have left indisputable evidence of Jesus. It's that simple, it's that black and white. There's no other way to analyze the facts and come to any other conclusion.
If you can find a way around that totally rational deduction without a thesis-sized explanation filled with mumbo-jumbo I'd be very interested in hearing it. Explain why Jesus is the Son of God but God left no indisputable evidence of that fact. I'll wait around for it.
Last edited by thrillobyte; 03-02-2019 at 09:08 PM..
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Sorry, my bad for misrepresenting his beliefs. It was unintentional. In my mind, a deist God is the functional equivalent of a non-existent God.
