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That the specific events told in the gospels are questioned as historical is not the same as saying the gospels themselves are "not recognized as authentic history". Part of the task of the historian is to determine what is historical and what isn't, from every historical document. That same page goes on to explain parts of this process and, as a result, we find examples of consensus:
The same way that anyone else that wasn't trying to waffle would.
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And New Testament scholars. I'm still waiting for the names of whatever scholars supposedly deny that Jesus existed, BTW.
There is Carrier, Earl Doherty, Thomas L. Brodie. Even your pal Ehrman says:
“What sorts of things do pagan authors from the time of Jesus have to say about him? Nothing. As odd as it may seem, there is no mention of Jesus at all by any of his pagan contemporaries. There are no birth records, no trial transcripts, no death certificates; there are no expressions of interest, no heated slanders, no passing references – nothing.”
The same way that anyone else that wasn't trying to waffle would.
No waffling here. It matters, is all, if you're defining it as "Always accurate" or some such.
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There is Carrier,
Who is not a NT scholar, and tries to get by solely on finding "parallels" between the gospels and other stories. Problem is, you can't discredit history that way. Parallels are not hard to find, especially when you look at multiple different stories and, well, you're trying to find them.
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Earl Doherty,
Who is not a scholar in any sense of the word.
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Thomas L. Brodie.
Who isn't even a historian, much less a New Testament scholar.
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Even your pal Ehrman says: “What sorts of things do pagan authors from the time of Jesus have to say about him? Nothing. As odd as it may seem, there is no mention of Jesus at all by any of his pagan contemporaries. There are no birth records, no trial transcripts, no death certificates; there are no expressions of interest, no heated slanders, no passing references – nothing.”
This only goes to support my point, which is that none of this goes one step toward implying that Jesus never existed. As I'm sure you know, Ehrman is a very adamant critic of that view. Why? Because Jesus is one of the best attested historical figures of that time period. Despite his criticisms of religion, he's equally intolerant of mythicists who deny history when it suits them.
No waffling here. It matters, is all, if you're defining it as "Always accurate" or some such.
Who is not a NT scholar, and tries to get by solely on finding "parallels" between the gospels and other stories. Problem is, you can't discredit history that way. Parallels are not hard to find, especially when you look at multiple different stories and, well, you're trying to find them.
Who is not a scholar in any sense of the word.
Who isn't even a historian, much less a New Testament scholar.
This only goes to support my point, which is that none of this goes one step toward implying that Jesus never existed. As I'm sure you know, Ehrman is a very adamant critic of that view. Why? Because Jesus is one of the best attested historical figures of that time period. Despite his criticisms of religion, he's equally intolerant of mythicists who deny history when it suits them.
I fail to see the point of your incessant arguing that there was an itinerant rebel rabbi messiah wannabe with smelly sandals wondering around 1st century Palestine. So what? There were no doubt hundreds of them! What is your point? That there was a rebel called Jesus is no more relevant than there was a rebel called George
I fail to see the point of your incessant arguing that there was an itinerant rebel rabbi messiah wannabe with smelly sandals wondering around 1st century Palestine. So what? There were no doubt hundreds of them! What is your point?
Just that anti-theists will do anything to make it look like they have a case against theism, right down to denying the existence of historical figures.
Just that anti-theists will do anything to make it look like they have a case against theism, right down to denying the existence of historical figures.
Why would denying the existence of an itinerant rebel rabbi be a problem for theism? I can see the problem for theism if we deny bibleJesus...but the other?
Why would denying the existence of an itinerant rebel rabbi be a problem for theism?
Because without that rabbi there couldn't be that rabbi+divinity. That's the aim of these mythicists. If they can convince the Christian that Jesus (the man) never existed, then that automatically disposes of Jesus (the son of god, who was also a man).
Because without that rabbi there couldn't be that rabbi+divinity. That's the aim of these mythicists. If they can convince the Christian that Jesus (the man) never existed, then that automatically disposes of Jesus (the son of god, who was also a man).
Don't see it. The Christian has no interest in an itinerant rebel rabbi nobody ...or shouldn't do. Christians only see the bible version.
I think it's obviously a challenge for some Western christians to understand (more than superficially) that they are being very western-centric and very christian-centric in their thinking. It seems impossible for them to conceive of vastly different religious perspectives in other parts of the world. Even if they have taken an overseas trip, they mostly just stayed on the tour bus. Let them spend the equivalency of several years in Thailand (for example) and see the domination of a culture by a different culture (Buddhism). Or in Saudi Arabia. Or India. Some of them just need to broaden their world view.
Quite correct. Jimmie apparently hasn't looked at Islamic apologetics, or he'd know that the very things that Jesus supposedly did that are not in the Quran are used as reasons to believe the Quran and not the gospels.
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