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Posts like this confuse me. Did you come here to tell us something or ask a question? Is this open to debate? Because the phrasing is pretty "Yeah, this is what i believe, so suck it". In which case you could just say that to someone in real life. If you are trying to engage people, then don't state things, ask questions.
The OP does ask a question:
"then whey do they pray for a different outcome when problems arise, for yourself or others."
There are those who believe in fate, another term for what will happen will be. And some understand, but some cannot. Prayer can be something to sooth a loss, so it will be an act of kindness (Think of someone who lives in contant pain, with no relief to be found. Fate won't change, but the timetable might, a tightrope many fear, but which may found a pathway around, for now. Not forever. But more precious time may be worth it.
So prayer can change the roadway a little, create a detour for now, but it won't change the end. But that time may be used to say and do what there was never time for before.
We adjust with prayer and other means of guiding energies but the ultimate is not lost, just pushed down the road.
I'm pagan/wiccan but believe that which we call 'God or Godess is a different mirror of the one Christans call their God, but belief systems are things we use words to express our interpretation of something for which likely there may be no 'words'.
If the only thing you think prayer is for is to "get stuff" from God...then no, it doesn't. It's not just to get stuff. It's not a magical thing that we simply recite the right words in order to twist God's arm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvette Ministries
Those who believe that prayer is about asking for changes in outcome, or that no one would die, no one would suffer or no one would ever have problems, don't fully understand prayer.
You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
John 14:14
And Mark 11 " 23 “Truly, I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them. 24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. "
That's what the deal is. And when God doesn't deliver, they have to add small Print (Only if God thinks you should have it, sometimes God says 'No'. And there's always "I thought that was metaphorical". ), and even then they know it doesn't work even for things there is no reason for not having it.
That's why they come up with excuses for why you shouldn't ask, because they know that more often that not, they won't get it it.
And Mark 11 " 23 “Truly, I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them. 24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. "
That's what the deal is. And when God doesn't deliver, they have to add small Print (Only if God thinks you should have it, sometimes God says 'No'. And there's always "I thought that was metaphorical". ), and even then they know it doesn't work even for things there is no reason for not having it.
That's why they come up with excuses for why you shouldn't ask, because they know that more often that not, they won't get it it.
Exactly.
There is a reason amputated limbs don't regrow.
There is a reason, with all other things being equal, that the lifespan for Christian is generally the same for Muslims, Hindus, Atheists, or any other group with different God(s) belief.
There is a reason that Alzheimer's patient never get better.
There is a reason the vast majority of the most dedicated Christians visit the doctor when they are sick.
There is a reason Rheumatoid Arthritis patients always get worse.
Prayer is no more effective than wishing upon a star or rubbing a rabbit's foot.
Many people believe. as I do that everything happens for a reason. So, for the people that believe that, then whey do they pray for a different outcome when problems arise, for yourself or others.
My point is, prayer doesn't actually work. What's going to happen is going to happen.
You are right. Things happen for a reason and it is usually because of the thing that happened right before and the outcome that was desired immediately after. And, yes, prayer doesn't work if you fail to understand the antecedent and the consequence.
I don't get it. Perhaps a hypothetical example - your dog goes missing and the kids are upset. You pray for God to let you get the pup back safe and sound. And then you find it was eaten by a road =sweeper and kids are distraught and end up peeing the bed, shoplifting and posting nude photos on facebook.
So explain how the prayer worked, but I failed to understand the precedent and aftermath and I would have seen that it had worked if I just understood it.
I don't get it. Perhaps a hypothetical example - your dog goes missing and the kids are upset. You pray for God to let you get the pup back safe and sound. And then you find it was eaten by a road =sweeper and kids are distraught and end up peeing the bed, shoplifting and posting nude photos on facebook.
So explain how the prayer worked, but I failed to understand the precedent and aftermath and I would have seen that it had worked if I just understood it.
Not sure if this was meant for my post, but I will answer anyway.
Since the OP stated that everything happens for a reason, there is a reason the dog goes missing. But you don't give that reason in your post so I assume an unsecure environment. Then we find out what happens after he goes missing. If you are lucky enough to get him back, again due to antecedents and consequences, hopefully you learn to secure his environment better, which is independent of prayer because God or the gods really had nothing to do with his disappearance.
Now if your kids are distraught, peeing in the bed, shoplifting and posting nude photos, you just have to think about the motivation behind these things. These are strategies on getting what they want (or avoiding). We know the antecedent, the dog was killed. We have to now find out what happens right after they do these behaviors, the consequences. Again, all independent of prayer because God really was busy doing something else.
Where prayer is helpful is reminding yourself how to do things differently next time, kind of like talking to yourself.
Yes that was asking you and that's a very good answer. In a way i agree that talking things out with yourself can be very useful in thinking about what you are doing to prevent things going wrong. I certainly found that Buddhist meditation made me Aware of what was going on around me.
So you might say that "prayer" is useful in human ethics and reasoning, and we can perhaps be tolerant of any religious trappings we might use to do them.
But it's nothing to do with an actual god, is it? We might have to qualify 'Prayer does not work as set out in the Bible'. We might further say that Christianity or Christian apologists at least, know that it does not work as set out in the Bible and make it something else like worship or thankfulness. You seem to come even further our way and say it's just using your head.
Yes that was asking you and that's a very good answer. In a way i agree that talking things out with yourself can be very useful in thinking about what you are doing to prevent things going wrong. I certainly found that Buddhist meditation made me Aware of what was going on around me.
So you might say that "prayer" is useful in human ethics and reasoning, and we can perhaps be tolerant of any religious trappings we might use to do them.
But it's nothing to do with an actual god, is it? We might have to qualify 'Prayer does not work as set out in the Bible'. We might further say that Christianity or Christian apologists at least, know that it does not work as set out in the Bible and make it something else like worship or thankfulness. You seem to come even further our way and say it's just using your head.
Yes. I like to consider content and conditions in forums. The content of the post was not necessarily if there is a god or not, just that there is a reason for everything. However, the OP is probably arguing that the antecedents and consequences are out of our control and God may have something to do with that.
Sometimes, yes, antecedents and consequences are out of our control because even the best plans have holes in them. Every once in a while the holes all line up. But there is no reason to believe a god would do this. Think about it. If He or She did, it would be nothing more than a "gotcha" moment, not to mention an opportunity to blame the god no matter how happily the human accepts the outcome. These are the conditions of the post.
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), and even then they know it doesn't work even for things there is no reason for not having it. 
