Ark Encounter visits down, once again. (planet, experience, disorder, genesis)
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And, I have told you before, The first Christians were no doubt told the same.
Yes...and that's a very good point.
But those people had little else to cling to. A, "They will get theirs in the end...while you are rewarded in paradise" concept was an easy sell to illiterate, simple people that had nothing and were terribly oppressed.
That sophisticated, educated, free (or close to it) people still endorse it like crazy is a whole other thing all together.
Like I say, We know we are against the religious instinct and - worse - a global conviction right to the top, that this is good for society, true or not.
We goddless bastards have to have Faith. Faith that people are capable of being rational, want to be rational and care in the end about what's true, rather than what's comfy.
That - not Jesus as such - is the 'Mojo' we are up against. We know it's a big job. But win or lose in the end, here we stand; we can do no other.
So you may get something out of telling us we can't win, but it really is pounding sand for you to keep telling us.
Like I say, We know we are against the religious instinct and - worse - a global conviction right to the top, that this is good for society, true or not.
We goddless bastards have to have Faith. Faith that people are capable of being rational, want to be rational and care in the end about what's true, rather than what's comfy.
That - not Jesus as such - is the 'Mojo' we are up against. We know it's a big job. But win or lose in the end, here we stand; we can do no other.
So you may get something out of telling us we can't win, but it really is pounding sand for you to keep telling us.
This is why Pantheism is such a great concept Trawk.
It is logical and reasonable...and satisfies the "God Instinct" drive.
To tell the religious that they are wrong or messed-up (or worse, insult them) for endorsing their religious beliefs is a known study in absolute futility...and, not a cool thing to do in my view.
But if you can give them an objectively existing God Entity to revere, and explain that the characters and scenarios written about in Religious texts are metaphorical and allegorical to persons, creatures, forces, processes, and events, and are for illustration and moral instruction...that is a much better way to approach the issue. IMO, of course.
This is why Pantheism is such a great concept Trawk.
It is logical and reasonable...and satisfies the "God Instinct" drive.
To tell the religious that they are wrong or messed-up (or worse, insult them) for endorsing their religious beliefs is a known study in absolute futility...and, not a cool thing to do in my view.
But if you can give them an objectively existing God Entity to revere, and explain that the characters and scenarios written about in Religious texts are metaphorical and allegorical to persons, creatures, forces, processes, and events, and are for illustration and moral instruction...that is a much better way to approach the issue. IMO, of course.
Trawk I like it. I'm actually cool with pantheism. I can give you anything you like to revere. In fact I revere it too. I just don't think it's intelligent, and maybe, neither do you. And none of that has anything to do with the pushback against organised religion, except that seems to put you against us.
I know that you deny the validity of negative evidence, but that is actually sound logic. Check that Theramin trees vid. (he is erudite in the subject) where he says the problem is evidence against religious claims AND lack of evidence for, where there ought to be.
Enough derail; back to the Ark. But what's to say now? We said it all.
Trawk I like it. I'm actually cool with pantheism. I can give you anything you like to revere. In fact I revere it too. I just don't think it's intelligent, and maybe, neither do you. And none of that has anything to do with the pushback against organised religion, except that seems to put you against us.
I know that you deny the validity of negative evidence, but that is actually sound logic. Check that Theramin trees vid. (he is erudite in the subject) where he says the problem is evidence against religious claims AND lack of evidence for, where there ought to be.
Enough derail; back to the Ark. But what's to say now? We said it all.
Let me sum it up.
Sloths. Kangaroos. Koalas. Freshwater fish in saltwater. Or, obversely, saltwater fish in freshwater. And lastly, what the hell did the critters eat once all the water went away? Oh yeah, no high water marks on the Pyramids. Oh, and water. What did the critters drink?
Trawk I like it. I'm actually cool with pantheism. I can give you anything you like to revere. In fact I revere it too. I just don't think it's intelligent, and maybe, neither do you. And none of that has anything to do with the pushback against organised religion, except that seems to put you against us.
I know that you deny the validity of negative evidence, but that is actually sound logic. Check that Theramin trees vid. (he is erudite in the subject) where he says the problem is evidence against religious claims AND lack of evidence for, where there ought to be.
Enough derail; back to the Ark. But what's to say now? We said it all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad
Let me sum it up.
Sloths. Kangaroos. Koalas. Freshwater fish in saltwater. Or, obversely, saltwater fish in freshwater. And lastly, what the hell did the critters eat once all the water went away? Oh yeah, no high water marks on the Pyramids. Oh, and water. What did the critters drink?
There's more, but that paragraph above will do.
This does all relate to the Noah/Ark story.
What you do with the Religious, is you explain the metaphor of it...and how beautiful and poetic a metaphorical story it is.
That if you listen to the authority people in your life like tribal elders, parents, etc (the message/warning from Noah, as metaphor)...and "get into" what is good (the ark, as metaphor)...you will be shielded from sure harm that will be caused by badness (the flood, as metaphor). That it is universal, categorical, and absolute that you will be destroyed if you don't heed the warning (the total destruction of everything and everyone, as metaphor)...but if you listen and obey you will be saved (Noah & family surviving, as metaphor).
There are more details to it, like even if no one else listens, and they all say the warning is bogus, you must listen anyway...stuff like that. But that's what you explain the story represents...in such a beautiful and brilliant way.
See, that way you don't mock them or insult them...you let them have their Book and their story, but you give them an alternative place to go with it.
This does all relate to the Noah/Ark story.
What you do with the Religious, is you explain the metaphor of it...and how beautiful and poetic a metaphorical story it is.
That if you listen to the authority people in your life like tribal elders, parents, etc (the message/warning from Noah, as metaphor)...and "get into" what is good (the ark, as metaphor)...you will be shielded from sure harm that will be caused by badness (the flood, as metaphor). That it is universal, categorical, and absolute that you will be destroyed if you don't heed the warning (the total destruction of everything and everyone, as metaphor)...but if you listen and obey you will be saved (Noah & family surviving, as metaphor).
There are more details to it, like even if no one else listens, and they all say the warning is bogus, you must listen anyway...stuff like that. But that's what you explain the story represents...in such a beautiful and brilliant way.
See, that way you don't mock them or insult them...you let them have their Book and their story, but you give them an alternative place to go with it.
Metaphor reading of the story is fine. But you know as well as I do that there are many who take it all literally and try explain the problems away.
Sloths. Kangaroos. Koalas. Freshwater fish in saltwater. Or, obversely, saltwater fish in freshwater. And lastly, what the hell did the critters eat once all the water went away? Oh yeah, no high water marks on the Pyramids. Oh, and water. What did the critters drink?
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I like it. I'm actually cool with pantheism. I can give you anything you like to revere. In fact I revere it too. I just don't think it's intelligent, and maybe, neither do you. And none of that has anything to do with the pushback against organised religion, except that seems to put you against us. 
