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Funny that atheists are so passionately against slavery in the Bible yet have no qualms about owning animals as pets and treating them as property. And since we are nothing more than animals in the atheist world then it is a fine example of atheist hypocrisy.
You are misrepresenting, therefore we are hypocrites? Animals are slaves? Tell that to Mr Yap.
The way I see it is like this. A religion is an organized group of people whose sole purpose is making their communities and the world at large a better place.
You have simply made up your own definition to suit yourself then. Because that is a definition I have seen nowhere anywhere before. For example the google definition is "the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods." which is nothing about making the world a better place.
Another definition is "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency"
Making the world a better place is the positive spin _you_ want to put on it. But it is no way a tenet of the actual definitions of what religion is or does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules
Skeptics and freethinkers who doubt God are merely critics who are trying to stop this, especially since they offer no alternative so far.
You are clearly from the same school as Jeff in the "Lets tell atheists what atheists want - rather than listen to them tell us" distortion tactics of strawmanning. However every time one or both of you insist on telling us what we think/want you succeed only in getting it very very wrong.
I think to discuss what atheists generally actually want one need only quote the oft mis-quoted Opium of the People passage which goes like this:
"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. Criticism has plucked the imaginary flowers from the chain not in order that man shall continue to bear that chain without fantasy or consolation, but so that he shall throw off the chain and cull the living flower."
So rather than stopping us make the world a better place - what atheism provides is the knowledge that no religion claim that actually is likely to make the world a better place - is a claim you actually need to believe nonsense to subscribe to.
The nonsense about there being a god - or Jesus being anything more than a normal human preacher - is not required to distil _anything_ of any actual use from religions. You can divest yourself of the complete nonsense - and still keep what is useful. To throw off the chain and cull the living essence of what is actually of any use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules
From this point of view anyone trying to stop or prevent the good done by the church is evil. They ridicule everything that is good in the world. They are mockers.
Nope we just ridiculous the patently ridiculous packaging on an otherwise workable product.
That's like saying the parent should go to prison for the crimes committed by their evil children.
If a parent was to leave a cake with poison on the floor where the baby crawls, the parent would be as guilty as a god leaving a forbidden fruit where two people could eat it.
Atheists as they are today taking power has never happened. No state has been built to my knowledge on the concepts of Humanism, Secularism, Free Speech and a free press, and the teachings of people like Lucritious, Democratus, Spinosa, Russel, Einstein, Jefferson, Thomas Paine and so forth - then you can comment. Until that happens however - you are just talking fantasy.
All you have is a utopian fantasy. You want to destroy anything that is actually good and working. Religion has worked for centuries upon centuries of human history. Yet all you can do is ridicule it.
Until they prove otherwise I will consider all skeptics to be like the clueless barbarians that I see in this forum.
All you have is a utopian fantasy. You want to destroy anything that is actually good and working.
Again your response is - like every time - to tell me what I think/want and refuse to ask me what I think/want. Remarkably immature - and remarkably dishonest - as a way to engage with anyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules
Religion has worked for centuries upon centuries of human history
Stabalizers on my bike worked for a long time too - but now I have grown out of requiring them. That something was useful in the past is _not at all_ an argument that it is useful now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules
Yet all you can do is ridicule it.
They believe there is an invisible intelligence controlling things that no one has _any_ evidence is there. Damn right I ridicule it. It's comical nonsense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules
Until they prove otherwise I will consider all skeptics to be like the clueless barbarians that I see in this forum.
And until you can evidence a claim - rather than present no evidence for it - they are going to remain skeptical of it no matter what name calling you engage in. Notice the difference though. We ridicule the beliefs. You insult the _people_.
And that is very telling about you and what you represent here.
All you have is a utopian fantasy. You want to destroy anything that is actually good and working. Religion has worked for centuries upon centuries of human history. Yet all you can do is ridicule it.
Until they prove otherwise I will consider all skeptics to be like the clueless barbarians that I see in this forum.
Boy. This was a hot thread while I was snoring. But a couple of observations. Neither Ozzy nor Jeff are Really supporting slavery. They are trying to pretend that what Looks like slavery in the Bible really wasn't. Well, of course it was. I saw no passages posted by Jeff that showed that it wasn't. A Hebrew slave that elects to stay does not make the slavery something else, and non -Hebrew slaves didn't even have that option. Jacob's slavery was still slavery. A freed slave who gets rich does not make the slavery non -slavery.
And at the same time, the Bible -apologists know that slavery is what it was as they have to excuse God for not saying it was wrong. They know it was wrong.
I don't need to say too too much about Ozzy's post. It is merely giving Religion the credit for what has actually been humanist social progress, with religion fighting it all the way. The only defence is to play the tattered old 'Stalin' card.
Finally, I have to defend Atheist Experience. While the atheists side sometimes don't handle calls the best way, very often what happen is that Christian calls in with a string of false arguments designed to get to 'Therefore Christianity is true'. It is justified in saying 'Stop. That was incorrect or bad logic'. And since the Christian won't stop talking, they must be cut off while it is explained where they are wrong.
I was rather amused by the poster who predicted that China would convert to Christianity and take over the world. At one time it looked like Communism was going to win. Now it's dead. And slowly and surely, Humanism has been winning more ground under the noses of the ideologies.
Sorry but just because you claim they are doesn't make it so.
There goes every single one of your arguments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
There is a laundry list of distinct differences between man and animal. Even the fact that we have such a wide array of physical differences within our own species is a strong point of evidence against your claim.
So animals that are somehow different are not animals?
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Boy. This was a hot thread while I was snoring. But a couple of observations. Neither Ozzy nor Jeff are Really supporting slavery. They are trying to pretend that what Looks like slavery in the Bible really wasn't. Well, of course it was. I saw no passages posted by Jeff that showed that it wasn't. A Hebrew slave that elects to stay does not make the slavery something else, and non -Hebrew slaves didn't even have that option. Jacob's slavery was still slavery. A freed slave who gets rich does not make the slavery non -slavery. 