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So it sounds like your past Christian faith was a true faith, but mixed with a more legalistic attitude alongside. Many have traveled that same road. But many have also regained that same kind of faith without the condemnation and legalism. You can combine Christian faith with the new truths you have discovered.
You said, "You don't realize you are criticizing the very thing which you have never even seen or experienced! Your ridiculing and angry tone is evidence". That fits you, too. That's what it matters.
Well, they've seen atheists and are aware of some atheist/non-theist ideas upheld by atheists. But I suppose without ever being atheist themselves, they would have never experienced it. I, for one, was never an anti-agnostic atheist, as I was raised secularly with some very religious family members and then religion became a bigger influence in my preteens. I was an Agnostic Theist who felt deeply inspired by the good natures and supernatures to spread the clear first solution (agnosticism) and other loving ideas before I became a Hard Agnostic. I converted many. But many Hard Agnostics eventually convinced me that even the heavens have to confess their agnosticism if they think correctly (with good and proper doubt) and are honest with themselves. The beginning of Perfect Enlightenment was thus found.
Last edited by LuminousTruth; 04-29-2019 at 08:35 PM..
So it sounds like your past Christian faith was a true faith, but mixed with a more legalistic attitude alongside. Many have traveled that same road. But many have also regained that same kind of faith without the condemnation and legalism. You can combine Christian faith with the new truths you have discovered.
Yes, this is true.
No, this is not preferable or necessary to me. Nor do I see it as good. It helps the legalists (the letter that kills the good spirit) hide in the shadows of the allowing/accepting good and grow like a fungus. I cannot allow that. This could be because of my previous legalist Christian background, sure. I don't see it as false yet.
For a time I was in preference of the anti-Bibliolatrous Quakers (and even happy with the UUs). But I did not find any to peer pressure me into finding good in religion in general that could not theoretically be found through secular means. I read about religious history deeply and found patterns to be too clear.
If I remember correctly, when Buddhist China merely outlawed tax-breaks for anything except Buddhist monasteries, only Confucianism and Taoism survived among the rich, who then told it to the poor (a Taoist usurper than violently broke down the Buddhist control). Christianity and Islam largely vanished. As if though only the Secular State could be their benefactor. Then again, Confucianism and Taoism were already more "historically" Chinese.
Regardless, this regionalism of religions highlighted a truth for me about the Christian faith. It started at a human point with human needs, like any other human movement.
So you are saying that Bonhoeffer was somehow wrong to criticize Hitler so early, because he only saw something suspicious, but nothing substantial?
Wow...
Wow. You lied, you was caught and called out for lying, you then called us liars. This was explained to you several times, and instead of apologizing, you try to make out I am in the wrong by once again lying.
To be a Christian means to be a slave of Jesus Christ, and an adopted child of God. Do you realize how ridiculous and infantile this retort of yours is? God is God; in case you didn't notice, there's a power imbalance here. Because God is God, He can impose His commandments on humanity; not just Christians or Jews, but all of mankind is subject to His righteous judgment. But God is subject to no man's commandments or judgments.
"Who art thou, O man, that repliest against God?" (Romans 9:20)
On the contrary, God does everything "by the counsel of His will." (Ephesians 1:11). That's a fancy way of saying God does whatever He pleases. There is no higher standard than His own!
On that note, the idea that Hitler was a Christian in the sense that he had a personal relationship with Jesus Christ seems to fly in the face of everything we know about him. I don't care if Hitler believed in the existence of God. Satan knows God exists; however, his relationship with God isn't a good one. Hitler was a politician, so he had to make some concessions to the Christian faith. It is also not just subtly but abundantly and emphatically clear from any reading of the New Testament that not everyone who professes Christian faith actually belongs to Christ. This point is conveyed, in one iteration or another, many times. One does not belong to Christ simply by being born into a certain culture, going to church a few times a year, or making an outward profession of faith. You either belong to Christ truly and in an innermost way, or you don't. There's no middle ground.
Shorter version, Phetaroi is ridiculous and a child because you do not understand the point; irrelevant Bible quotes; and the No True Scotsman fallacy.
You said, "You don't realize you are criticizing the very thing which you have never even seen or experienced! Your ridiculing and angry tone is evidence". That fits you, too. That's what it matters.
Oh, I understand it. I was an atheist for the last 14 years. Half my life. The Lord found me and brought me back. I didn't seek Him; He sought me. I was blind, but now I can see. Only God can make blind men see! So I know what it's like to be blind.
Oh, I understand it. I was an atheist for the last 14 years. Half my life. The Lord found me and brought me back. I didn't seek Him; He sought me. I was blind, but now I can see. Only God can make blind men see! So I know what it's like to be blind.
And those he does not help to see get sent to hell?
Only that you know nothing about atheism or atheists. But it doesn't matter. Your post is simply dishing out accusations as you do when you run out of arguments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes
Shorter version, Phetaroi is ridiculous and a child because you do not understand the point; irrelevant Bible quotes; and the No True Scotsman fallacy.
And more to the point, exactly encapsulates the point I made, rather in Jest, in fact. - Hitler was Bad, Christians (Real Christians ) are Good, therefor Hitler was not a Christian, even if he thought he was (1).
(1) "Well, he said he was a Christian, and he may have even believed it, but he wasn't Really, Reallya Christian. Obviously, Satan had some part.." (Dark matter - 'double standards')
Oh, I understand it. I was an atheist for the last 14 years. Half my life. The Lord found me and brought me back. I didn't seek Him; He sought me. I was blind, but now I can see. Only God can make blind men see! So I know what it's like to be blind.
We are all born atheist and stay atheist until we are brainwashed into religion. Sometimes we can be deprogrammed out of Blindfaith. Sometimes Believers cannot be reached. Your sly insinuation that you were born Christian and somehow slipped into atheism shows how little you have considered the matter. But that's the effect of Faith. It stops you thinking about the Faith - you only think within it.
Wow. You lied, you was caught and called out for lying, you then called us liars. This was explained to you several times, and instead of apologizing, you try to make out I am in the wrong by once again lying.
Wow.
You should seek help for your mythomania.
Now you are just making up stuff. I've already explained what I meant, and everything I've said on this topic still stands unchallenged.
You are just upset about the historical truth, and trying to divert attention from the truth.
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) are Good, therefor Hitler was not a Christian, even if he thought he was (1).