Atheism As A REJECTION OF--Not Disbelief In--An Evil God (atheist, bible, quote)
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Oh, I agree. I've read about half of the Koran, and that was enough for me. But a polite Muslim whom I see as a truly good person...if he approached me I'd probably say, "Okay, you've got fifteen minutes". And I'd set the time. If he said something interesting, we might have a discussion. But, I've seen too much to conceive of ever converting in that direction.
However, there may be bits of teachings in the Koran that may have wisdom. After all, I've often said that wisdom comes from many places.
Hard not to be polite to a nice person, but 15 minutes?
I've had many a very polite seemingly nice person approach me with the want to evangelize, and about as politely as I can be, I have to ask please no. There's just no good reason for me to think the time will be well spent for either of us. I'd also point out there is plenty of wisdom that comes from many sources. Wisdom worth considering if not adopting, but taking a piece of gold from a swamp doesn't change the swamp from being a swamp!
As you prefer and only when you're ready of course. Yes also of course we can share insight together and respect for one another in the process. Long as you don't talk about my mama...
LOLOL! The only way I would talk about your mama, is if I complimented her on raising a son who has the good sense to like San Francisco...
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I'm not sure what recent events you have experienced but I do wonder what has caused you to question your view and what that view might be. Either way it sure seems to me that a good time to discuss or "compare notes" about this sort of thing is when our minds are not settled. Certainly better than when our minds are cemented shut in any case...
I don't mean to sound so "mysterious", or that what's happened has been so traumatic. Plus, I can get into a lot of detail about your question and my own 'journey', that I wouldn't want to derail this thread. Don't get me wrong. I'd love to discuss it with you. I just don't think that HERE and NOW is the time or place...
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Originally Posted by LearnMe
My wife is a vegetarian. I'm not because I like In-N-Out burgers too much, but the reason we're going to hell for eating meat is not because God considers that a sin but because of what my wife says we're doing to animals.
Right! If it isn't one damn thing it's another...
Now, HERE, I'm not going to talk about YOUR mama, but I WILL talk about MINE. My mother passed away about 2.5 years ago at 82 years old. I was her live-in caregiver for 5 years before she passed away. She had the attitude of "Give me In-N-Out, or give me death!" She used to pray, LITERALLY, about 5 hours per DAY. But if you came between her and an In-N-Out burger, she'd just about run you off the road...and call it 'justifiable homicide'...except on Friday's, of course She was a carnivore and would want to have a pow-wow with your wife to 'straighten her out', because the NT pretty much tells us that eating animal flesh is pretty much God-given. Having read the NT a number of times, I concur with mom.
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As if religion isn't a great source of curious behavior and belief, the whole idea of confessing and penance to relieve us of our sins is right up there with all the standing, kneeling, sitting over and over again during mass. All of which I endured for much of my childhood. I could go on too, but yes I get the picture and best not to get me started either...
I agree with you, in that I've questioned it myself. But...I've also reached some conclusions about it. For example, Catholics stand at the beginning of the mass, when the priest walks down the aisle. We do so out of reverence. We also stand for the National Anthem before a baseball game or other pro sporting event. We do so out of reverence. We often stand when a bride walks down the aisle...or when a judge walks into a courtroom. We do so out of reverence. Not 'worship' but respect, or even tradition (cue the music from Fiddler On The Roof...). We have many traditions in our lives, religious and non-religious. If that's true (...which it obviously is...), why should religious traditions be more scrutinized than non-religious ones? (ETA: As long as they're not harmful to themselves or others....)
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Originally Posted by LearnMe
I find this hard to believe and remain uncertain given the wink and all. Probably you just pulling my leg a bit, but if by chance you are being serious or either way, I remain curious about your thoughts regarding my Ten Truths. After all, I posted them to solicit as much input about them as I might be able to get in this forum.
The 'wink' wasn't meant to throw you off. I was trying to bring my little quips about 'lying' and 'truth' full circle. Didn't go as I planned.
But I WAS being serious. By the time I read your OP, too many pages had already been posted. I didn't have my laptop back then, and a lot happened before I could even sign up to CD.
I DID however, read your OP again yesterday (thank you for posting it), along with some of the posts. I just don't think I'd have anything valuable to contribute to the thread that hasn't already been said.
Hard not to be polite to a nice person, but 15 minutes?
I've had many a very polite seemingly nice person approach me with the want to evangelize, and about as politely as I can be, I have to ask please no. There's just no good reason for me to think the time will be well spent for either of us. I'd also point out there is plenty of wisdom that comes from many sources. Wisdom worth considering if not adopting, but taking a piece of gold from a swamp doesn't change the swamp from being a swamp!
Something a wise man once told me...
Maybe it depends on how one looks at a swamp. To a swimmer, a swamp may be nothing but filth. But to a scientist....an evolutionist...a virologist...a biologist....that 'filth' just might be a gold mine...
Maybe it depends on how one looks at a swamp. To a swimmer, a swamp may be nothing but filth. But to a scientist....an evolutionist...a virologist...a biologist....that 'filth' just might be a gold mine...
Keeping in mind the word "balance". cherry picking is one of the best tools we have.
When people tell me "You are cherry picking". I am like "Yes I am. Look at what I put in this pile and look what I put in that pile. Was the method reliable and are the piles rational?"
Well, I have severe anxiety at times that can cripple me, so I do have a bit of a defective brain.
I think my point on elections is non-partisan.
People take stances on issues based on their personal morals. They then vote for politicians promising to put those issues (morals) into laws.
Voting is an attempt to put your morals on other people through the legal system.
I am not saying voting is bad, but it is all based in winning elections to make laws...laws that are based on morals that some, but not all agree with.
Kind of, yes.
I agree that people shouldn't be those things in your list. However, standing up against those things is saying my morals oppose that and I don't like your morals that accept that and I want you to stop...change... and adhere to my morals instead of your current morals.
Look, it is good that people stand up for what is right, but it is still imposing morals on others. MLK was great for Civil Rights, but he was telling people that they had to change their morals, that the law needed to change to accept his morals. Good for him, but it was imposing morals on others.
The typical atheist pushes morals as much as the typical Christian.
Even severe anxiety does not mean you have a "defective brain". You need to have more confidence in yourself.
But we're not allowed to talk politics in the religion sub-forum.
Hard not to be polite to a nice person, but 15 minutes?
I've had many a very polite seemingly nice person approach me with the want to evangelize, and about as politely as I can be, I have to ask please no. There's just no good reason for me to think the time will be well spent for either of us. I'd also point out there is plenty of wisdom that comes from many sources. Wisdom worth considering if not adopting, but taking a piece of gold from a swamp doesn't change the swamp from being a swamp!
Something a wise man once told me...
It's sort of like when I watch a movie on television. I give it 15 minutes to hook me. If 15 minutes is worthwhile, I'll continue on.
Swamps are very important to the ecology. Even religious swamps.
If you were to say to me, "I'd like to read you something from the new testament, I'd probably say, "That's a lovely swamp. Go ahead."
If you were to say to me, "I'd like to read you something from the old testament, I'd probably say, "That's a dark and evil place. I've been there and have no interest in returning to the great dismal swamp".
The difference is, I can find most of the wisdom/principles of the bible elsewhere, without drowning in the evil of the old testament.
Keeping in mind the word "balance". cherry picking is one of the best tools we have.
When people tell me "You are cherry picking". I am like "Yes I am. Look at what I put in this pile and look what I put in that pile. Was the method reliable and are the piles rational?"
Hey! We agree on something.
Anyone who isn't cherry picking isn't really thinking.
... God can take a running jump in a lake far as I'm concerned. And I'd tell Him that to His face if He'd only appear.
You know Job tried that. :O)
These topics are always such fun. I am a Christian. I don't beat people over the head with my beliefs, but I am there to share if they ask. We are to be good neighbors first. I believe I had a personal encounter with the God through His Word.
The world is evil, not God. God didn't start it being evil, man turned it so. Man cursed creation with his own actions, not God's. Our beliefs do seem unbelievable to many, as yours do to us. But despite our differences, I do believe there is always opportunity to work together and make the world a better place for those around us.
Anyone who isn't cherry picking isn't really thinking.
We agree on most things. Its how we apply the notions that we disagree.
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). We have many traditions in our lives, religious and non-religious. If that's true (...which it obviously is...), why should religious traditions be more scrutinized than non-religious ones? (ETA: As long as they're not harmful to themselves or others....)
